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Date: Wed May 13 21:00:24 PDT 1992
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Subject: TML Bundle #341: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
4109  11-May-92 metlay@phyast.pit O ye generation of Fools! (Solomon, _Proverbs
4110  11-May-92 cat@fgssu1.fgs.sl Jump Mechanics, Cyber-Interfaces << Cynthia p
4111  11-May-92 cat@fgssu1.fgs.sl Ramblings from an off-line GM << As I am the 
4112  12-May-92 anaylor@mihi.une. Starports << But first a thankyou to those wo
4113  12-May-92 richard@agora.rai What Are Rules For? << Mike Metlay says: {Eve
4114  12-May-92 William Henry Tim On cybertech: << About jacking in, a possibil
4115  12-May-92 Steve_Higginbotha Metlay's latest tirade... << Mike, I fail to 
4116  12-May-92 jimv@ucrmath.ucr. Tiny Nukes << Hi all! Just a little question 
4117  12-May-92 peschko@mermaid.m Re: Cybertechnology << Catie posts: COMPUTER-
4118  12-May-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU Micronukes << A .1 kiloton bomb? Think of a 1
4119  12-May-92 Mark F. Cook      Re: Metlay's latest tirade... << Metlay write
4120  13-May-92 d9bertil@dtek.cha Incomming! << As I have mumbled about in the 
4121  13-May-92 anaylor@mihi.une. Computers and well starports .... << > ----- 

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4109
From: metlay@phyast.pitt.edu (metlay)
Subject: O ye generation of Fools! (Solomon, _Proverbs_)
Date: Mon, 11 May 92 2:07:12 EDT


APOLOGY AND DISCLAIMER. Please excuse any offensive material in the
following post. These are matters I feel very strongly about, and I
tend to talk from the hip in such cases.  My apologies, Cynthia, for
catching you in the crossfire; you were handy, and you (probably)
deserve kinder treatment.

- ----

> From: Cynthia_Higginbotham@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US (Cynthia Higginbotham)
>  
> Mike Metlay writes:
>  
> >Furthermore, Refs must be careful as to how much TL advancement they want
> >to allow in the development of these systems, before game balance goes 
> >straight out the window. 
>      
>      What's TL advancement got to do with game balance?  Just remember, 
> Rule #1: the bad guys have it too.

If this is, seriously, your Rule #1, Cynthia, then regardless of your
impressive achievements here on the TML I have just lost any and all 
respect for you as a member of the Traveller community. You are preaching
the worst kind of ear-rot there is, and it makes my stomach turn.

What is your sin? Making rules to deal, within the context of the
game, with players whose actions may prove disruptive or
counterproductive.  This is not, as you might benightedly think, a
necessary and constructive sign of a good, conscientious Referee: it
is the eternal stamp of the muddled, muddling amateur, and one that I
shed myself only a few short years ago, after over a decade of making
myself miserable doing what I was SUPPOSED to be enjoying, i.e.
running Traveller games.

Note that this is NOT about technology, it is a much larger issue.
You can, and do, argue that from a game technology standpoint giving
people access to hellish weapons of instant destruction is reasonable,
viz.:

>      Seriously, I do *NOT* understand this prejudice against realistic
> cybertechnology -- yes, *realistic*.  The cyber/computer technology 
> depicted in "cyberpunk" and other near-future science fiction is the most
> likely and realistic technology I've seen yet in Traveller -- so you
> dislike that and prefer jump drives/gravitics instead?  Or computers 
> obsolete by 1990's standards?  I are confused...

On the face of it, this statement is totally reasonable. I live and
play my SF RPGs by it, and so do many others. In concert with your
Rule #1, though, it is the stroke of Doom for a worthwhile game. 

My suggestion that technology be limited was, in essence, a timid
attempt to avoid this posting by skirting the reasonable point you
make about the availability of technology. It failed, because what you
just said above was inarguable. Now, though, I'm forced to say
something much more difficult, because of that FIRST piece of your
hraka I quoted.

(At this point, you're all scratching your heads and wondering if 
The Man has finally gone off the deep end. Perhaps; doctoral theses
can do that to you. But there is a point to all this. Bear with me.)

(It is also possible, even highly PROBABLE, that the initial statement
made by Cynthia WAS in fact made in jest (at least partially), which 
makes my initial disclaimer twice as important, lest I lose a good
friend. However, I shall press on, for my point is the most important
one I have ever made on the TML, or WILL ever make, and there are 
those who MUST hear it. Bear with me.)

> >[...] Common sense should rule all such things, and
> >weenies who insist on the latest cybertoys should be politely directed
> >to the Cyberpunk game going on in the next county.
>  
>      But Mike, the weenies don't want to be in the Cyberpunk game where 
> all their enemies are just as heavily armed... that would be dangerous.
> See Rule #1 above.

(This tends to reinforce my feeling that Cynthia was kidding. Well and
good; I was worried there for a second. It also, however, demonstrates
that she remains ignorant of the true problem. Onward!)

What you have failed utterly to consider, in your mad rush toward
technic Nirvana, is the metagaming aspect of the availability of such
technology.  Not just what the characters become capable of, but what
the PLAYERS realize the characters become capable of. The bridge
between real live person, with limitations of various sorts, and
paper-and-dice construct, with DIFFERENT limitations, of various
sorts. And how all of this fits in with the vision of the game, from a
standpoint of both knowledge and intent.

Forget the rules. Forget the UNIVERSE! THIS is what is important;
all else is expensive, slick window dressing that doesn't mean spit:

What are we doing here? We are playing Traveller.

What is Traveller? Traveller is a role-playing game.

What is a role-playing game? A game in which people create artificial 
personae to interact in a fictional universe in an attempt to gain 
various goals (that's the "role-playing" part) and enjoy themselves 
in the process (that's the "game" part).

Role-playing. Game. This and nothing else is the core of the matter.

When we do this, we are engaging in a constructive, cooperative effort
to solve a problem of some sort. We encourage one another; we face setbacks
together, we suffer together, sometimes we die, sometimes we triumph.
It is not the Satanist hogwash the media paint it as; it is perhaps the
most healthy and uplifting form of recreation ever invented by Man. It
HEALS! Psychologists know this, and have for years or decades. It is,
ultimately, GOOD for us.

Unless we do things YOUR way. With Rules like #1. Observe and learn:

When a group of people get together to game, players and ref,
regardless of the rules system or the circumstances, they do so to
enjoy each other's company and to explore a world of fantasy and
wonder, TOGETHER. We have all experienced times when the entire 
group, even when the CHARACTERS were in conflict, moved and thought
in a wondrous harmony, and the game "clicked." It WORKED. 

We have also, alas, experienced times when it didn't. Sometimes only
on occasion, and sometimes chronically. And when the problem becomes
chronic, we have often, in our inexperience and ignorance, attempted
to band-aid the problem with Rules.

Bad move.

There is only one Rule that counts in a role-playing game: THOU SHALT
GET ALONG WITH THY REF AND FELLOW PLAYERS. No exceptions, no fixes to
the rules to prevent abuses, no nothing. You go with the program or
you LEAVE.

The Rule you suggest is designed to prevent abuses by players of the
tremendous technology that futuristic games offer, or for that matter
the magic and nifty weapons that float around most fantasy games.  It
implies one of two possibilities: either there is a player or two who
is always looking for a crowbar to wedge open a bit more of an
advantage over the NPCs (and often, tacitly, the other players), orr a
situation in which the players have one vision and the Ref another.

This should not be confused with what arises from IGNORANCE of the
game framework, it is a matter of INTENT. The Rules are stapled into
place to prevent things from getting out of hand; the Ref throws up
obstacles, technicalities, threats, to hold down the players, and they
respond with ever more clever and devious means of escalation.  Their
fun is malicious; the Ref, often, stops having fun at all. The game
goes on, but people wonder why it doesn't zing any more.

The reason is lack of shared vision.

> >In a recent game I ran, one character had an
> >integral smartgun link wired to a cybernetic enhancement of his own brain;
>
> .  I rather like the idea presented 
> above; gives me some notions I hadn't thought of of what truly advanced
> weapon technology might be able to do.

(What a positively revolting thought.)

"But wait," you say, "You provided the technology for this massacre."

True.  In my game, in this circumstance, the technology was there at
the start, and the player and his character knew it. It was understood
that gunplay was damned dangerous, and the sooner and cleaner it was
over, the better.  This character was set up with the stated intent of
finishing violent situations before any PCs could get hurt. He did so
with alacrity but with no sadism or joy, and he runs his character in
such a way as to assure that such situations are AVOIDED whenever
possible. In short, he is incredibly dangerous, but his character
WORKS because he shares the vision of a nonviolent, brain-intensive 
game with his Referee (moi) and the other players (none of whom have,
or wanted to have, dangerous fighters).

I am going to save you all the years of agony I went through, trying
to jump through hoops to please everyone in a game at once when certain
players were being uniform pains in the butt, so listen carefully:

Just say NO.

You're not stupid; you can tell the difference between a character
who's a pain because it's the player's PLACE in the GAME to be a pain
(what's a party without conflict?) and a character who's a pain
because the player is a pain, period. You can tell the difference
between a player who's having a bad night and one who's just plain
impossible. This is not generalizable! A fellow who is a total BLAST
in a high-level Runequest game may be a total BUMMER in a Traveller
campaign; people who are uniformly impossible are, thankfully, a
minority.

> >whereupon he described "Smith" and "Wesson" from BUCK GODOT, ZAP GUN
> >FOR HIRE (not what I'd call Traveller-grade hard SF).
>  
>      Hey! I liked Buck Godot!

So did I, but it WASN'T Traveller. It was Bureau 13, which is FINE, or
maybe Star Wars, but it wasn't Traveller. The mindset is different.

This is a vital subpoint to the one about shared vision: Different
games, and different universes, require different mindsets. You don't
play Traveller the way you play AD&D, or Bureau 13, or Paranoia, or
Runequest. They all have different "feels" to them, and must be
treated accordingly. The vision changes, and the people must change
with it. It all ties together that way in the end.

(Ultimately, this is the core of my disclaimer: I cannot force the
mindset of my Traveller universe on others, and unlike games like
Paranoia or Teenagers from Outer Space or Toon, the mindset in
Traveller is open to interpretation. There are people out there who
revel in the kind of mindless garbage that I avoid with all haste, and
enjoy themselves in doing so. To them, then, this entire diatribe may
seem pointless and out of place, but it is equally important to them
as to me, because THEY must retain THEIR vision as I retain mine.)

So, we have defined the problem: lack of shared vision. What's the fix?

Just say NO. In the most forceful, inarguable way you can: throw the
offenders OUT. You're NOT doing yourself or them a favor by keeping
them in a game and messing with rules and caveats to keep them in
line; you're tacitly encouraging their behavior and ruining things for
the other players....and for yourself, oftentimes. If they're really
friends, they'll understand and show up for a different campaign in a
different game with a different Ref, if that's what it takes. If they
are so mortally offended by the fact that you can't deal with them
that they refuse to have anything to do with you thereafter, guess
what?  You just WON, BIGTIME, because they're out of your HAIR! You
can go back to enjoying the game again! No need for Rules-- you've
eliminated why they were there in the first place! 

And if it's the whole party against the Ref? Well, two possibilities:
one is that they're all jerks, the other is that their shared vision
clashes with yours. The solution to both problems is the same: STOP
THE GAME IMMEDIATELY. Then you either start a new game in keeping with
their vision, if it's one you COULD share if you knew of it from the
start... or go find a new game group.  And don't give me that whining
about how tough it is to find groups these days! That's horseshit.
There are bazillions of people looking for Refs; you just have to find
a set that click with your needs.  Playing with people who DON'T is
worse than not playing at all. Believe me, I know.

If you love Traveller as a world-conquering shoot-em-up game, and 
your players do as well, GO FORTH AND SHED BLOOD! Don't let an old
fart like me spoil your fun-- IF IT *IS* FUN TO YOU. I like running
games of this sort myself every once in a while (once per four years
seems to be about right), but I DON'T use Traveller for it. It's
not right for me. But if it IS right for you, AND for your players,
then go to it. 

BUT.....

If you are the referee of a game, and you establish a certain mindset,
then it behooves you to insure that your players understand and agree
with that mindset, AT THE START. If they do not, you must either learn
what they want and change accordingly, if you can do so without
compromising your own vision, or change games, or eject them. Some or
all. If your vision is clouded, you CANNOT run a good game.

In closing, I quote Cynthia one last time:

>      Yep.  An idiot with the power of a god is still an idiot [...]

And a referee who makes rules to circumvent player conflict rather than
cutting it away like the cancer it is, IS the prime example of an idiot
with the power of a god. I have no sympathy for these people; they 
deserve none. They have created their own private Hells.

Here endeth the lesson. Go, and tolerate fools no more.

(And before anyone asks: yes, I *DO* practice what I preach. Ask any
of the thirty or forty people with whom I had long-standing gaming 
associations whom I'll no longer run in Traveller games because they
were good D&D players and ONLY good as D&D players....)

(And before anyone asks: No, I do not apply this ruling to the PBEM,
although I'd dearly love to sometimes. Why not? That's not for
public discussion.)

Thanks for your tolerance of my howling. I hope I was able to teach
SOMEONE something useful with it; it'd be a drag if Cynthia stopped
talking to me for nothing. |-\

- -- 

Mike Metlay
metlay@minerva.phyast.pitt.edu
Atomic City, P.O. Box 81175, Pittsburgh, PA 15217-0675


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4110
Date: Mon, 11 May 92 16:03:13 PDT
From: cat@fgssu1.fgs.slb.COM (Rather B. Fishing)
Subject: Jump Mechanics, Cyber-Interfaces


Cynthia posted: 

>   Seriously, I do *NOT* understand this prejudice against realistic
> cybertechnology -- yes, *realistic*.  The cyber/computer technology 
> depicted in "cyberpunk" and other near-future science fiction is the most
> likely and realistic technology I've seen yet in Traveller -- so you
> dislike that and prefer jump drives/gravitics instead?  Or computers 
> obsolete by 1990's standards?  I are confused...

JUMP SPACE MECHANICS

Ok, I'll bite...  I certainly won't argue over the problems with
gravitics and computers in Traveller.  On the other hand, I could
write an equation for "jump space mechanics" where the energy event of
jump space insertion allows the ship to travel through "complex" space
(described mathematically as Riemannian space).  Reintroduction into
"real" space at one's destination can be described as "popping"
through a Reimann surface at a singularity (satisfying the boundary
conditions of the yet unwritten differential equation of jump travel
arbitrarily).  Misjumps?  Well, bad insertions could be used as
initial boundary conditions for travel through Reimannian space, thus
skewing the "solution" of the differential and the final time/place of
arrival.

On the other hand, I've never cared for lanthium grid technology...

     < Warning - nerd attack: The above "jump space mechanics" are
       modelled on the REAL WORLD solution for the arrival of Love 
       and Rayleigh waves in a teleseismic event, where the energy
       event (ie, a big earthquake) happens in real mathematical space, 
       the displacements travel in complex mathematical space <some 
       of which are entirely imaginary...>, and arrivals happen at 
       singularities when the wave train "pops" through a Riemann 
       surface back into exclusively REAL space...  Helmberger at the 
       Seismic Lab at Caltech did the mathematics in the late 60's - 
       truly grusome stuff, makes great reading late at night if you 
       want to be put to sleep... >

COMPUTER-TO-PERSON DIRECT INTERFACING

This has always been one of the two things in cyberpunk that I've
always had the most trouble with.  I have no confidence, based on what
I know (which isn't that much, admittedly), that near-future
technology can support computer to person direct interfacing.  I just
don't think "jacking-in" is possible.

It turns out from what people have learned from PET scanning of the
human brain that smart people are effecient thinkers (low PET
emissions during problem solving), and not-so-smart people are
wasteful thinkers (high PET emissions during problem-solving).  In
addition, we know that memory retrieval is probably a tree search, and
we also know where different functions occur in the brain more or
less.

We know that synapses pass electro-chemical signals through the brain,
and that there are several different emzymes that act essentially as
bio-resisters, bio-transitors and bio-capacitors along synapse paths.
We also know that there is an upper limit on the SPEED, ie the
electric current, along the synaptical pathways.  Last, we know that
the brain is self-wiring, and that the virtual wiring in every brain
is different.  (Remember, the brain is a really cool organ - after
brain damage which isn't too severe, the brain can relearn and rewire
most of its functionality along new paths - which is why stroke
victims are often able to relearn talking and walking...)  The basic
ROM "instruction set" on "wiring" is stored in chromosomes at the cell
level, which is to say that an analog computer is probably a better
model for the hardware/software or the brain that a digital
computer...  Neural input/output is analog - think about hand/eye
coordination, for example.

So, smart thinking is efficient, but along pathways which have an
upper limit on speed, and which can't be described because their
specific location is unknowable (because of the self-wiring nature of
the brain).  Given those constraints, I personally find it hard to
believe that a near-future biomed engineer will be able to design the
sort of interface described in the cyberpunk genre books for
"jacking-in", mostly because of the dynamic and unique virtual wiring
property of individual brains.

So given that the hardware/software system is DYNAMIC, how can you
make a jack (which will be fixed in space) that can interface with a
self-rewiring analog biochemical processor whose instruction set has
no knowledge of the world beyond the cellular level???  I don't think
it can be done (personal opinion).

Mind you, I only have the sort of "knowledge" on bioscience that comes
from reading Scientific American and Science News.  This isn't to say
that I'm inflexible in my opinion; but I've thought about this a bit,
and I made conclusions on what I think I know.  I'm willing to be
convinced otherwise if one of the smart-link, chipping-in, and/or
jacking-in proponents can propose a plausible means by which
computer/brain interfacing can be achieved.

OK, end of rant...  You can take out your smart guns for pot shots at
me now...

Catie Helm
cat@piggy.fgs.slb.com _or_ cat@fgssu1.sinet.slb.com




------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4111
Date: Mon, 11 May 92 16:11:26 PDT
From: cat@fgssu1.fgs.slb.COM (Rather B. Fishing)
Subject: Ramblings from an off-line GM


As I am the only person in my traveller group with an internet
account, I've been making hard copy of the nightly mailing and taking
it over to where I game one to two times a week.  There the hard copy
is snatched up and read...  We've been working our ways slowly through
the bundles also.  (Thanks Bob Dean, for getting me directions to this
list...  you've made a whole bunch of old traveller junkies pretty
happy...)

My GM asked me to post the message below.  If you have any replies for
Jim, you can send them to me, and I can get them to him.  The turn
around time for Jim to reply to items posted on this list is slow, so
as you will see below, he will be responding sometimes to subjects a
few weeks old.

Catie Helm
********************* begin included message **************************

Hello out there. I'm an MT GM over in the East Bay Area ( Why yes, we
Californians so think that there is only one Bay Area |-) )  I'm
Writing this to say Hi, and to talk about one of my favorite games!
One of my players is on this mailing list and if you're reading this,
she has consented to send this set of rambilings out. I did look at
the Rouge generation and I don't think it's too complicated at all;
and if anyone of my players want to use it for a character, I'd be
happy to see it.

Speaking of characters, my wife has two that are a new race -
Racoonids!  We are thinking of sending them to the Challenge as an
article on a new race - if you people would be interested let us know.

I run a game that is pretty free form but has a lot of role playing. I
like my people to be happy with their characters. I was looking at
some comments about Career changes - I liked the Idea of DM modes
based on time in the old career but allowing the use of brownee points
on the enlistment. Good idea !!

We have one character in our game who changed careers at the start of
the campaign.  She was a Cop who rose to Police Commissoner ( also
became a Baroness |-)) She was selected by a certain Duke to be the
mission commander for a group of very strange characters. On eof her
favorite comments ( when no one is listening! |-)) is " I'll get you
for this Norris!!!!"  She is riding herd on the Nail mission (the one
from the Rebellion book) Her #1 is an Aslan Male (if he couldn't
command, he might accept #1...) The next is a retired (so she
thought...) Navy Commodore who thought very little of putting an EX
COP in command!!!

There are some very strange people on this crew - even the humans have
communication difficulties ( you are a product of your culture you
know... |-) )

Maybe we'll post some of the stories to the list if anyone is
interested out there. it's been a grand time!! how about the time M.C.
shot up her stateroom wall! or the time Thilea fell in on Sean... We
have a lot of role playing and not to many fire fights ( those are
dangerous - you can get HURT that way!!! ) and only one bar fight
(some of the charcters didn't like it one bit and are not going to get
in another if they have any say in the matter...).

What is up in the MT world ? I keep reading that DGP is not doing MT 
any more and that GDW is coming out with (YET) another revision of 
Traveller. I don't know how many more I can stand as I bought the 
original books and resisted the change until I got a real good look at 
MT and they had had time to get most of the Errata |-) done!!

I think that I've run on probably too long now so I'll return you to 
your original sender!

Jim Kelleher

Remember: no matter where you go, there you are...





------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4112
From: anaylor@mihi.une.oz.au (Adam Naylor)
Subject: Starports
Date: Tue, 12 May 92 16:14:21 EST

But first a thankyou to those wonderful people in netland who provided
their versions of combat mods etc 

Starports

Who owns them on a planet ????? I read somwhere that the starport
was imperial territory on planets . What do people think ?????

My version is like this . 

All starport territory (the land) is owned by the imperial government . 
It in turn leases this land out to various coorporations who set up
the starport (for a nominal fee) . Thus in theory the starport is imperial
territory . The security in a starport would be imperial marines I guess
.. Thus somebody could enter a starport and be in an 'exclusion' zone . Of
course there would be extradition (but with a 'undemocratic' government
benign buearacrats could put alot of red tape in the way) . 

The problem with this view is that the planets government might be
a tad resentful that their planets starport is run like this . 

The situation is a bit like Shanghi in China before the outbreak
of the second world war . The port was run jointly by france, england
and I think america . Most of the city was chinease but the port area
was run by the govts who had troops stationed at the 'border' with 
checkpoints and the like . People had to have the neccessary papers 
to cross between the areas . When the japanese invaded, these 
govts still controlled the exclusion zone. 

I would really like to know others views and comments on this
(cause I am going to use em in the next adventure) . 

What do you think

Edmund

(er ........yeah........and........well.......michael)

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Dont you hate having to clean mice ???? they get bits of fluff stuck
in them all the time" Me


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4113
From: richard@agora.rain.COM (Richard Johnson)
Subject: What Are Rules For?
Date: Tue, 12 May 92 5:47:33 EDT


Mike Metlay says:
{Even in the midst of thesis defense, he finds time to write}
{Sorry I quoted so much, but it seemed important}

:Forget the rules. Forget the UNIVERSE! THIS is what is important;
:all else is expensive, slick window dressing that doesn't mean spit:
:...
:Role-playing. Game. This and nothing else is the core of the matter.
:...
:We have all experienced times when the entire 
:group, even when the CHARACTERS were in conflict, moved and thought
:in a wondrous harmony, and the game "clicked." It WORKED. 
:
:We have also, alas, experienced times when it didn't. Sometimes only
:on occasion, and sometimes chronically. And when the problem becomes
:chronic, we have often, in our inexperience and ignorance, attempted
:to band-aid the problem with Rules.
:
:Bad move.

If only politicians would learn this about real life.  Not so far removed
from fantasy, I guess.


:There is only one Rule that counts in a role-playing game: THOU SHALT
:GET ALONG WITH THY REF AND FELLOW PLAYERS. No exceptions, no fixes to
:the rules to prevent abuses, no nothing. You go with the program or
:you LEAVE.

Why does this sound so remeniscent of the first and second (Judaic)
commandments?  

Which is MY main point about GM'ing--Don't take it too seriously.
So often we see people who need to get a life and stop treating the 
game like it was actuually important to them.  If it *really* is 
that important, this player needs professional counseling, not the
kind of inner search work that comes from role-playing.  Very few
of us here have the skills and training needed to keep that (fortunately
very) rare individual from losing touch with our common fantasy
altogether.

So, as Mike says:

:Here endeth the lesson. Go, and tolerate fools no more.

:(And before anyone asks: No, I do not apply this ruling to the PBEM,
:although I'd dearly love to sometimes. Why not? That's not for
:public discussion.)

Except it's mainly my fault.  and I'll publicly admit THAT much...

- -- 
Richard Johnson      richard@agora.rain.com
Qui custodii ipsos custodes?

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4114
Date: Tue, 12 May 1992 13:29:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: William Henry Timmins <wt0b+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: On cybertech:

About jacking in, a possibility is not jacking into the main mass of the
brain but tapping into the sensory paths.

ie- put wiring in the optical and sensory-motor areas.

One last thing- make the 'jack' a neural feedback loop. It adapts to the
individual 'wiring' of the brain.

So, if you get a 'jack', you need to spend some time 'practising' with
it so that it adapts to your thought patterns and brain morphology.

Make sense?

(In any case, things will be complex even if we had enough technology to do it)

- -Me

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4115
Date: Tue, 12 May 92 11:51:51 CST
From: Steve_Higginbotham@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US (Steve Higginbotham)
Subject: Metlay's latest tirade...

     Mike, I fail to see the relationship betwen "Rule #1" and the
rest of your tirade.
 
     I have played Traveller ever since it came out, under a variety
of GMs (mostly good.  Bad GMs seem to stick to D&D).  I have NEVER
seen a relationship between good roleplaying (or lack of it) and
weaponry (or lack of it).  The two are about as closely related as
rockets and crabs.
 
     The only point I get from your tirade is either that:
 
          1) requiring internal consistency is bad, or
 
          2) allowing bad guys to have a fighting chance is bad.
 
     Neither assumption really makes sense.  The assumption that doing
either of these things somehow enhances group play makes no sense
either.  The assumption that you cannot be playing the game right
unless you follow these "guidelines" makes no sense, either.
 
     Having played Traveller for many years (and many other
roleplaying games during the same period), I have noticed that the
ONLY time firepower affects playing style is when the PCs have it, and
the NPCs don't.  Otherwise, whether the available firepower is clubs
or FGMPs seems to make little difference.  FYI, in Cynthia's games, my
character(s) have used guns four times in the last two years:  once to
shoot a couple of large carnivores trying to eat my cattle, once to
break up a bank robbery, once to ambush some pirates, and once to stop
a lunatic from killing my character.  In none of those cases did my
level of firepower affect my decision to use force, and in only one
would a lack of firepower have convinced me not to (I would have let
the carnivores kill my cows, since I have no desire to be eaten by a
four-ton meatgrinder on legs).
 
     Digression!
 
     Back to the main point.  Mike, do you really believe that being
internally consistent is bad from a "role-playing" standpoint?  Have I
just lost any respect I might have had for you?
 
     Rule #1, as Cynthia described it, is my rule #1.  It can best be
translated as:
 
     "The only advantage you have over ANYONE else is your mind, and
it's contents.  They can, and will, use everything the universe allows
to accomplish their goals, just as (presumably) you will.  In other
words, if you can't outthink them, don't bet on being able to outshoot
them."
 
     If this assumption is wrong, then I have indeed missed the boat
in roleplaying.  But I suspect that allowing the PCs to get their
hands on "terror-weapons" while forbidding the NPCs to do so is worse,
and I don't think I will EVER allow such in any game I play in, even
if the PC(s) are nice guys who would never use those same
"terror-weapons".
 
Later...

- -- Via DLG Pro v0.991

Steve_Higginbotham@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US

I have learned to use the word "impossible" with the greatest caution.
                                    --W. von Braun

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4116
Date: Tue, 12 May 92 13:34:10 PDT
From: jimv@ucrmath.ucr.edu (jim vassilakos)
Subject: Tiny Nukes


Hi all! Just a little question regarding tiny nuclear detonations.
Say that you have a 0.1 Kiloton warhead go boom at sea level on
the surface of an ocean. The first thing I want to know is whether
of not you agree with the blast radius given by Striker rules
(no damage beyond 300 meters, if I'm reading this correctly).
The second thing I'm wondering about is, how high in TL would you
have to go before you could squeeze the bomb (detonation equipment,
shielding, and nuclear material) into the space of... roughly...
a soccer ball (or football for those of you outside the United
States)? The third thing I want to know is, how far away, roughly,
could the average person hear the "little boom"? And fourth,
would the waves generated by this critter pose a significant
hazard to costal populations which are more than five or ten
miles from ground zero? Finally, could a reliable nuke be made
at the 0.01 - 0.001 range in order to deliver a little bang
(say to completely destroy a city block with something the size
of a grapefruit)? Just wondering out loud. It's for the
Harrison Chapters, of course. Muchos thanx in advance...

           _   /|
           \`o_O'          Jim Vassilakos
             ( )     <---  jimv@ucrmath.ucr.edu
              U            ucsd!ucrmath!jimv (uucp)
          Aachk!


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4117
From: peschko@mermaid.micro.umn.edu (Edward Peschko)
Subject: Re: Cybertechnology
Date: Tue, 12 May 92 18:10:44 CDT


Catie posts:

COMPUTER-TO-PERSON DIRECT INTERFACING
> 
[much ado about the nature of the brain and how it is self-wiring, etc, etc]
> 
> So given that the hardware/software system is DYNAMIC, how can you
> make a jack (which will be fixed in space) that can interface with a
> self-rewiring analog biochemical processor whose instruction set has
> no knowledge of the world beyond the cellular level???  I don't think
> it can be done (personal opinion).
> 

Um... yes, but we are very fortunate to have, at our disposal, several major 
NERVES that connect the senses from the disparate parts of the body TO the 
brain.... Tap into those and you are in business.. This makes sensory perception
enhancement much more feasible, but makes such things as enhanced consciousness 
(the computer actually FUSES with the brain to have faster memory, heightened
intelligence, etc. is well nigh impossible (even though I WILL NOT take the 
extra step to say that it IS impossible)) If computer enhanced intelligence does
exist in the future, it probably will be in the form of a 'small voice talking
in your ear' privvy to the data that is coming into the brain, and able to make
separate decisions about such data, then commuting that data TO you. In other
words, a dialog.

	About the problem of analog -- 1) it is only half correct.  Action 
potentials are PARTIALLY analog. They either are firing or they don't -- in that
sense they are digital. However, they also have limits to firing, sometimes fire
in weakened way (if overburdened by too much activity) and sometimes cannot fire
at all (if in a resting state) In addition, neurons have a partial ability to 
LEARN from prior firings. The reason why you haven't gone crazy because of the
sensation of your clothes on your skin is because the neurons have ADAPTED to 
this sensation, and do not fire because of it.
	Anyhow, the whole paragraph above is moot, because a transform can be 
made from analog to digital, as evidenced by CD players. I am not too familiar
with the mechanics of this, but it is certainly NOT an impassible block as far
as Cyber technology is concerned....

Curious as to what you think,

Ed
peschko@mermaid.micro.umn.edu

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4118
Date: Tue, 12 May 1992 23:42 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: Micronukes

A .1 kiloton bomb?

Think of a 100 kilogram iron bomb.  That's about 220 pounds.  Smaller than
the bombs dropped by B-17's in World War II.  Not big enough to cause wide
scale destruction.  But whatever it hit will feel it big time, but not much
else.  I believe the BIG bombs in vietnam that smashed huge areas were in
the 750 pound range.  or about .3 kilotons.

Scott Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4119
From: Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>
Subject: Re: Metlay's latest tirade...
Date: Tue, 12 May 92 22:19:49 PDT

Metlay writes:

> > Cynthia Higginbotham writes:
> >  
> > Mike Metlay writes:
> >  
> > >Furthermore, Refs must be careful as to how much TL advancement they want
> > >to allow in the development of these systems, before game balance goes 
> > >straight out the window. 
> >      
> >      What's TL advancement got to do with game balance?  Just remember, 
> > Rule #1: the bad guys have it too.
> 
> If this is, seriously, your Rule #1, Cynthia, then regardless of your
> impressive achievements here on the TML I have just lost any and all 
> respect for you as a member of the Traveller community. You are preaching
> the worst kind of ear-rot there is, and it makes my stomach turn.

Oops.  Bad karma, dude.  Much as I hate to piss on your campfire,
I've got to side with Steve Higginbotham (quoted below).  What does
your diatribe have to do with Cynthia's Rule #1?

> And if it's the whole party against the Ref? Well, two possibilities:
> one is that they're all jerks, the other is that their shared vision
> clashes with yours. The solution to both problems is the same: STOP
> THE GAME IMMEDIATELY. Then you either start a new game in keeping with
> their vision, if it's one you COULD share if you knew of it from the
> start... or go find a new game group.  And don't give me that whining
> about how tough it is to find groups these days! That's horseshit.
> There are bazillions of people looking for Refs; you just have to find
> a set that click with your needs.

I should be so lucky.  This may, in fact, be true in a city like
Pittsburgh, with a nice, big population base to choose from.  In
a city the size of Corvallis (population 48,000 and shrinking),
the only possible source of game fodder is the university, and the
kind of mewing, masturbating, adolescent slime you get there can
put you right off role-playing altogether.  If you can afford to
pick and choose, you don't know how lucky you've got it.

> Here endeth the lesson. Go, and tolerate fools no more.
> 
> (And before anyone asks: yes, I *DO* practice what I preach. Ask any
> of the thirty or forty people with whom I had long-standing gaming 
> associations whom I'll no longer run in Traveller games because they
> were good D&D players and ONLY good as D&D players....)

Grrrr.  That sound you hear is my hackles raising.  (More later, as
Steve H. is also guilty of this.)

Steve Higginbotham writes:

>      Mike, I fail to see the relationship betwen "Rule #1" and the
> rest of your tirade.
>  
>      I have played Traveller ever since it came out, under a variety
> of GMs (mostly good.  Bad GMs seem to stick to D&D).

What *IS* it with you people and D&D?!?  I can't think of any other
example of in all my personal experience to compare with the "holier-
than-thou", elitist *bullshit* I see on rec.games.frp, and the TML,
when it comes to the subject of D&D.  You just can't seem to slam
it enough.

Complain about the *RULES*?  For Christ's sake!!  It's the oldest
FRP still in wide-spread use!  So it's been through 2 revisions.
You can only change it so much before it stops being D&D and starts
being some other FRP.  You can find tons of flaws in *ANY* game system,
(including, as we all know, our beloved Traveller), just like you can
find devotees of any game system.

Complain about the players?  Again, oldest system in existance.  Of
*COURSE* there are lots of bad D&D players.  There are also lots of
*GOOD* ones!  When you've been around that long, you're going to pick
up plenty of both.  It's just that the *BAD* D&D players get more
press (mostly from some RPG snobs I won't mention by name).  To
quote Sturgeon's Law, "Ninty percent of *EVERYTHING* is crap."

But I digress...

Mike, I agree with about 95% of your original post, but I'm having
a really hard time seeing how it relates to Cynthia's "Rule #1".

Remember, RPG Rule #1 is "Don't give the Ref. ideas."  (Oops!  That's
Rule #4.) :^)

Actually (to paraphrase from "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid"),
Rule #1 is "There *IS* no Rule #1".

If you want ot opt for technical consistancy, fine.  If not, and
your players don't squawk, that's fine too.

Anyway, as Steve says...

>      Rule #1, as Cynthia described it, is my rule #1.  It can best be
> translated as:
>  
>      "The only advantage you have over ANYONE else is your mind, and
> it's contents.  They can, and will, use everything the universe allows
> to accomplish their goals, just as (presumably) you will.  In other
> words, if you can't outthink them, don't bet on being able to outshoot
> them."

I don't know that it's necessarily Rule #1, but it should *definitely*
be *SOMEWHERE* on the list.

			"Obviously, a man's judgement cannot be better
			 than the information on which he has based it.
			 Give him the truth and he may still go wrong
			 when he has the chance to go right, but give
			 him no news or present him with distorted and
			 incomplete data, with ignorant, sloppy or biased
			 reporting, with propaganda and deliberate false-
			 hoods, and you destroy his whole reasoning
			 processes, and make him something less than
			 a man."
				- Arthur Hays Sulzberger,
				  Publisher, New York Times 1935-1961
	- Mark C.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4120
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Incomming!
Date: Wed, 13 May 92 10:00:42 MET DST

  As I have mumbled about in the past, I'll be visiting the US late this
summer. The time period is the seventh of Juli to about the twentyfifth of
August. Here is the places I'll visit. Ask me for the specific dates I'll
be in each place.

Seattle				New Orleans
Missoula			Florida (around Kennedy)
Yellowstone			Columbus, GA
Rapid City			Huntsville, AL
San Francisco			Elisabethtown, KY
San Louis Obispo		Greensboro, NC
Ocean Side			Williamsburgh
Yoma				Washington DC
Tucson				New York
El Paso				Boston
Dallas				Chicago
Houston				Milwaukee

- -bertil-
- -- 
PC 1: "I take his SMG!"
PC 2: "NOW I worry!"

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4121
From: anaylor@mihi.une.oz.au (Adam Naylor)
Subject: Computers and well starports ....
Date: Wed, 13 May 92 21:15:39 EST

>    ----- Transcript of session follows -----
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> From: anaylor@mihi.une.oz.au (Adam Naylor)
> Message-Id: <9205130447.AA03509@mihi.une.oz.au>
> Subject: Computers and well starports
> To: traveller@metoilus.wr.TEK.COM
> Date: Wed, 13 May 92 14:47:33 EST
> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
> 
 Er you know you want to talk starports know (gee I cant think why any
 one will be able to flame that heh !) . 
 
 Another question from me
 
 In todays terms how powerful are traveller computers in todays terms ?
 
 Please no scientific mumbo jumbo a scince student could only understand
 
 My idea was this . 
 
 A tech 11 hand computer (about 1/5 the size of a milk container) has
 a 20 meg hard disk and 2 meg memory . 
 
 What do you think
 
 "Oh and only real men talk traveller starports (and computers)"
 
 PS My views on cyberdecking computers, its workable, people just
 go skitz doing it . Besides the average starship computer seems to
 be fairly smart, and would HE want you sniffing through his
 underware draw doing it hmmmmmmmmm ......?
 
 Edmund (With michaels help)
 
 
 


------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun May 17 21:00:22 PDT 1992
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #342: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
4122  13-May-92 richard@agora.rai Re: GM's and Rules << I want to live dangerou
4123  13-May-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU Re: Micronukes (OOPS!) << Sorry folks, Missed
4124  13-May-92 metlay@phyast.pit Metlay launches another tirade (not) << I'd l
4125  13-May-92 gwh@lurnix.COM    Re: Starports and Re: Small Nukes << The simp
4126  13-May-92 cat@fgssu1.fgs.sl cyberpunk interfaces << "Me" (ie William) pos
4127  14-May-92 anaylor@mihi.une. My Name .....and well starports << Okay time 
4128  14-May-92 richard@agora.rai Rules and GM's << Okay, just what IS _your_ r
4129  14-May-92 Traveller Mailing Re: Starports << In my universe the "Starport
4130  14-May-92 metlay@phyast.pit A reply to Mark Cook on D&D bashing << Cease 
4131  14-May-92 Steve_Higginbotha trivia... << Mike Metlay: >I envy you greatly
4132  14-May-92 gwh@lurnix.COM    Challenge:60 and "Assignment: Vigilante" mini
4133  14-May-92 Rybalchenko Andre Unsubscribe << Can i ask you, how to unsubscr
4134  14-May-92 Mark F. Cook      Re: Rules and GM's (again) << > Cease thy foa
4135  15-May-92 metlay@phyast.pit House Rules << Rule #1: Don't give the Ref id

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4122
From: richard@agora.rain.COM (Richard Johnson)
Subject: Re: GM's and Rules
Date: Wed, 13 May 92 5:38:01 EDT

I want to live dangerously and intercede on behalf of Mike, Steve,
and Cynthia--before they feel compelled to jump in kicking.

I *think* I heard all three of  you say roughly the same thing.  To wit:
It is the GM's job.  Don't abrogate it to a determined player.  (more or
less.)

Internal consistency is one of the tools at our disposal.  Secret weapons
are another.  "Just say 'no'" is a third.  Choosing to use one in prefer-
ence to another does not make you a bad person (tm).  It only means you
have individual tastes.

To paraphrase Steve, the mind is our, and our players' most potent tool. 
Occassionally one will misuse it.  Our job is to be prepared.  *Sometimes*
we can make our point by duking it out with the characters.  Often we
have to flex our muscle on the player.

(Or did I miss your points altogether?)
- -- 
Richard Johnson      richard@agora.rain.com
Qui custodii ipsos custodes?

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4123
Date: Wed, 13 May 1992 09:12 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: Re: Micronukes  (OOPS!)

Sorry folks,

Missed a decimal place (as most of you noticed)
I was reading .1 Kilotons as .1 tons.  DUUUHHHH!
(That's what I get for trying to read around midnight.)

The closest to 100 tons of TNT I have ever read about was the Tall boy
Earthquake bombs of WWII.  25 (?) tons of TNT.  They were dropped from
Lancasters slung under the fusilage.  They were designed to bury themselves
under ground from the force of being dropped and then the explosion would
collapse underground bunkers and the like.

Doesn't really help with your question though does it?

Scott Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4124
From: metlay@phyast.pitt.edu (metlay)
Subject: Metlay launches another tirade (not)
Date: Wed, 13 May 92 12:58:19 EDT


I'd like to thank Steve Higginbotham for his well-reasoned response
to my flailings on the last TML digest (BTW, Richard, it is precisely
BECAUSE of my thesis defense that I'm as crabby as I am, and after 
a fourteen hour day of writing physics it was a handy way to blow off
steam); our disagreement, however, appears to be a moot point, based
on my interpretation of what Cynthia says versus his.

Cynthia's initial statement: "The bad guys have it too."

Steve's reasoning for the existence of this rule: "It is
technologically and societally consistent to assume that all
individuals at a given level of technology and "connectedness" can
access technology of a certain type, and one cannot therefore count on
a technic advantage at any given moment. One should predicate one's
actions based on the assumption that one's 'toys' are inferior, or at
best comparable, to those of one's adversaries."

Metlay's reasoning for the existence for this rule: "One of the most
commonly seen means of game abuse is for parties to arm themselves 
heavily with weapons and technology so as to batter their way through
challenges provided by the Ref without forethought or care, regarding
their toys as a crutch for bad roleplaying. We can defeat this by
hitting back with all of the technology at our disposal."

Both are correct and non-exclusive, and if any blame must be laid, it
must be upon me for strictly adhering to my interpretation rather than
giving fair voicing to Steve's (and presumably Cynthia's). However, 
that does not invalidate my point. Rules like Cynthia's can and do exist
for the muzzling of players that should simply be shot and left in a 
snowdrift, and I would bet money that even in Traveller they exist for
MY reasons in more campaigns than they do for Steve's.

I apologize for any offense I may have caused by failing to consider
both interpretations, positive and negative, of the rule. But I will
NOT back down from my interpretation, any more than I'd ask you to back 
down from yours.

That having been said, let me do some more flaming for a moment:

I envy you greatly, Steve, if you can honestly say that you have
rarely if ever seen a bad Ref running Traveller. In my experience of
the fourteen years the game has been in general circulation, the
proportion of truly awful Traveller refs, players and games I have
seen has been uncomfortably high. Maybe I ought to move to where
y'all are, since you seem to have had better luck than me....

(At this point, I had written a very long, gruesomely detailed flame
elaborating on the above points to excess. I then wised up and deleted
it. Y'all have had enough from me, and my lunch hour (well, 15 minutes)
is over and it's time to get back to work....)

- -- 

Mike Metlay
metlay@minerva.phyast.pitt.edu
Atomic City, P.O. Box 81175, Pittsburgh, PA 15217-0675

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4125
Date: Wed, 13 May 92 10:57:39 PDT
From: gwh@lurnix.COM (George William Herbert)
Subject: Re: Starports and Re: Small Nukes


The simple one out of the way first:
	Today, we can fit a 1-3 kiloton nuke in a 155mm
(6 inch diameter) artillery shell with ease.  I've
seen actual (though prototype) football-sized ones.
There's really no point with a conventional fission
bomb to make it any less powerful than that; you reach
a point of inverse return where you have to design
it larger to get less power out of it... 8-)  You can
extrapolate as you wish out to TL15; I suspect that
you could with gravitic imploders and less-stable
elements make very, very big hydrogen bombs in a 
hand grenade sized package.  Hell, if you can build
a moderately capable nuclear damper, just put a 
kilo of Californium in a small damper container and just
turn the damper off to detonate it 8-)

On to Starports...
	Adam Naylor seems to have slightly misunderstood
the position of a Starport.  According to previous
published material, a starport is extraterritorial
in terms of local laws (imperial laws apply though),
but not for "ownership".  There are references to
company-owned worlds where the corporation was investing
in upgrading "their" starport.  In addition, there's
no good reason for the Imperial government to have
to be responsible for running them all.  As long as
everyone follows the Imperial rules about how starports
are run, and that seems standard, then everyone can
go have their own if they want 8-)

- -george

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4126
Date: Wed, 13 May 92 17:57:04 PDT
From: cat@fgssu1.fgs.slb.COM (Rather B. Fishing)
Subject: cyberpunk interfaces


"Me" (ie William) posted:

> a possibility is not jacking into the main mass of the
> brain but tapping into the sensory paths
> ie- put wiring in the optical and sensory-motor areas.

but but but...I always thought that the areas where sensory input is
evaluated _were_ part of the mail mass of the brain...  (If you meant
plugging into the main senory nerves prior to the ol' grey matter,
then please disregard the previous sentence!)  (I'm probably just
demonstrating that physical-science types like me should never attempt
to mouth off about biology...  ;->  )

> make the 'jack' a neural feedback loop. It adapts to the
> individual 'wiring' of the brain - 
> So, if you get a 'jack', you need to spend some time 'practising' with
> it so that it adapts to your thought patterns and brain morphology.

ok, I'll buy that GIVEN that the 'jack' is smart enough to understand
how that brain processes information, which is something that isn't
completely known yet.  

but but but - the 'jack' can know about the brain - but how can the
brain "know" about the jack?!?  Again I will kvetch that the info set
(which is on the cellular level) will not recognise ADDITIONAL alien
pathways represented by the jack.  I'll buy substitution of existing
pathways, but I still can't buy adding new functionality/paths.  

I suppose that some future genetic engineer will figure out a way to
reprogram the cellular info set (after all, that's what they're doing
now with dna splicing) and then it's possible for the brain at the
site of the jack to recognise the jack...  But think of the further
implications: if you can do that in the brain, you can presumably do
it elsewhere in the body too! An extra arms or two, folks?!?  And who
needs analgathics when you can just go ahead and reset the biological
clock?!?


Ed posted:

> Um... yes, but we are very fortunate to have, at our disposal, several
> major NERVES that connect the senses from the disparate parts of the
> body TO the brain.... Tap into those and you are in business.. 

I'll buy that (especially since that's how modern prosthetics work).
I also agree with your "dialog" model of enhanced intelligence.

> ...a transform can be
> made from analog to digital, as evidenced by CD players. I am not too
> familiar with the mechanics of this, but it is certainly NOT an
> impassible block as far as Cyber technology is concerned....

Yes, fourier forward and inverse transforms are wonderful little
things, unless, of course, you're in the middle of suffering through a
course in special functions...  ;->

> Curious as to what you think,
>
> Ed

What you sees it whats you gets...
TTFN

Catie Helm
cat@piggy.fgs.slb.com _or_ cat@fgssu1.sinet.slb.com



------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4127
From: anaylor@mihi.une.oz.au (Adam Naylor)
Subject: My Name .....and well starports
Date: Thu, 14 May 92 16:56:13 EST

Okay time to set the facts straight regarding my name . 

Edmund		My 'Computer' name, a bit 'wanky' but thats me for you

Michael		My real name

Adam Naylor	The guy who owns this account . He does not mind that I
		use it cause he rarely ever does ......Isnt that nice
 		of him .

So if there are any people from the University of New England, this
is all a lie (Gee I hope that fools em........)

Starports

Well I havn't learnt how to 'reply' to stuff from the TML yet so
I will have to 'name names' . 

To George (?)

Er I dont know what the imperial laws on starports are, otherwise
I wouldnt be asking .........So lemmie know what they are (or
where to find them) . 

If that is the case (the one george presented) why are marines at
starports (does it only happen when there is a naval base present) . 

Michael and edmund
(To all those people in australia, "Blackadder" is on tonight, dont
miss it)
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now a roll call

Edmund	-	"Here"
Michael -	"Here"
Adam    -	"Er .......hes on holiday"



------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4128
From: richard@agora.rain.COM (Richard Johnson)
Subject: Rules and GM's
Date: Thu, 14 May 92 5:35:04 EDT

Okay, just what IS _your_ rule #1?  (and 2 and 3)

At our house the rules are:

1.  It's only a game.
2.  Bring the GM coffee (and/or food and/or whatever).
3.  Don't give the GM ideas.

So we now know my #3 is Mike's #1 and Mark's #4.  What the house rules
for the rest of us?
- -- 
Richard Johnson      richard@agora.rain.com
Qui custodii ipsos custodes?

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4129
Date: Thu, 14 May 92 09:51:54 EDT
From: Traveller Mailing List Mail <tml@engrg.uwo.ca>
Subject: Re: Starports



In my universe the "Starport" is part of the contractual obligation
that the imperium has for the planet when it joins the imperium, the
same as the defense of the planet with the fleet, etc.

This means that when a planet jonis the Imperium, Imperial advisors
are sent in to help the local populace build the port, provide standard
reguations (e.g. communication frequencies), and manpower including
security. The natives still have to build it, which is why there is
such a variation between starport types (A-F).

There is nothing stopping the local populace from constructing their
own starport, in fact the Planet builders book includes the secondary
starports when generating the planet. The characters don't routinely
see these other ports because:
1) They are typically of lower class than the main (Imperial) port
2) Locals run them, so people are not certain of the security, etc.
3) The main port is well versed in customs etc, which the lesser ports
may not be
(I'm sure there are more reasons, but it is essentially cyclical, people
use the main port most of the time because people use the main port 
frequently)

This (I think) would make a interesting diversion, the PC's have to
use a local port rather than the main one for whatever reason, and
then they have to deal with unknown customs, people trying to
cheat them (i.e. substandard fuel, unnecessary repairs) if they don't 
check closely. Bribery, etc.


				-Dan

Dan Corrin, Network Manager, Mechanical Engineering, UWO, London, Ontario
InterNet: dan@engrg.uwo.ca.                                (519) 661-3834
TML/CZ/FrameUsers/Consim FTP site: sunbane.engrg.uwo.ca (129.100.100.12)     


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4130
From: metlay@phyast.pitt.edu (metlay)
Subject: A reply to Mark Cook on D&D bashing
Date: Thu, 14 May 92 10:01:16 EDT


Cease thy foaming and smooth thy hackles, O Excitable One. I stated,
plainly, that the people I no longer gamed with were good D&D players
but not good Traveller players. I'm sorry if that immediately registered
as a D&D slam, but I was trying to hark back to the idea of a different
mindset, not to belittle D&D, which I have played and run off and on
since 1975 and which was the basis for the variant game that supported 
my single best campaign ever (1984-1987 nonstop). The people in it were
great D&D players-- among the best-- but we'd started playing D&D because
my repeated attempts at Traveller games continually went flat with them.

And as far as finding players goes, I still maintain that no players beats
bad players every time. I can afford to be patient.

- -- 

Mike Metlay
metlay@minerva.phyast.pitt.edu
Atomic City, P.O. Box 81175, Pittsburgh, PA 15217-0675

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4131
Date: Thu, 14 May 92 09:21:46 CST
From: Steve_Higginbotham@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US (Steve Higginbotham)
Subject: trivia...

Mike Metlay:
 
>I envy you greatly, Steve, if you can honestly say that you have
>rarely if ever seen a bad Ref running Traveller. In my experience of
>the fourteen years the game has been in general circulation, the
>proportion of truly awful Traveller refs, players and games I have
>seen has been uncomfortably high. Maybe I ought to move to where
>y'all are, since you seem to have had better luck than me....
 
Alas, it wouldn't help to move here, since most of my Traveller
playing was done in other places, at other times.
 
Mark C.:
  
>>      I have played Traveller ever since it came out, under a
>>variety of GMs (mostly good.  Bad GMs seem to stick to D&D).
>
>What *IS* it with you people and D&D?!?  I can't think of any other
>example of in all my personal experience to compare with the "holier-
>than-thou", elitist *bullshit* I see on rec.games.frp, and the TML,
>when it comes to the subject of D&D.  You just can't seem to slam
>it enough.
 
Apologies for even SEEMING to slam D&D (in any of it's incarnations). 
While it is true that most of the terrible GMs I have known stuck with
D&D, it is also true that some of the very best GMs I know stuck
exclusively to D&D.
 
 
>Complain about the *RULES*?  For Christ's sake!!  It's the oldest
>FRP still in wide-spread use!  So it's been through 2 revisions.
>You can only change it so much before it stops being D&D and starts
>being some other FRP.  You can find tons of flaws in *ANY* game
>system, (including, as we all know, our beloved Traveller), just like
>you can find devotees of any game system.
 
Why should I complain about the rules?  They MUST be doing something
right, or the game would never have susrvived this long.  I never
argue with success.
 
 
>Complain about the players?  Again, oldest system in existance.  Of
>*COURSE* there are lots of bad D&D players.  There are also lots of
>*GOOD* ones!  When you've been around that long, you're going to pick
>up plenty of both.  It's just that the *BAD* D&D players get more
>press (mostly from some RPG snobs I won't mention by name).  To
>quote Sturgeon's Law, "Ninty percent of *EVERYTHING* is crap."
 
This also is true.  I have never denied it, and never would.  But the
bad D&Ders get more press because there are more of them (more players
implies more bad players, all else equal).  And Sturgeon's Law just
about covers it, all right...
 
BTW, why are we arguing about D&D?

Later...

- -- Via DLG Pro v0.991

Steve_Higginbotham@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US

I have learned to use the word "impossible" with the greatest caution.
                                    --W. von Braun

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4132
Date: Thu, 14 May 92 14:28:18 PDT
From: gwh@lurnix.COM (George W Herbert)
Subject: Challenge:60 and "Assignment: Vigilante" mini-adventure


	Two new GDW MegaTraveller thingies.  One is that Challenge
60 is out (which means that I ought to be paid for Surprise Party rsn 8-),
with the usual dearth of good MT stuff.  What it does have is the combat
rules for McInnis'es Wet Navy (which I wasn't totally impressed by),
A bunch of starship designs by Gannon that are theoretically "Black War"
warships (they look better done than the last naval suppliment.  There's
even a 12,000 ton J3, 3G Meson Gun J CL, which we all know is a very
useful type of ship to have 8-).  An interesting tidbit in the
Traveller News Service indicates that Dulinor is starting to play
hardball opressing his political opposition within his home area
(or alternatively that Terrorism is on the rise in a _big_ way,
another great sign of the onset of chaos).

	Other product, and this is a neat one, is a $4.50
miniadventure by Charles Gannon entitled "Assignment: Vigilante".
It's about a starmerc outfit with a modified Subsidized liner
turned fighter-carrier, operating as an anti-piracy force in Diaspora
sector.  It's got a 16-page campaign/scenario book, a color 3-page
cardboard ship deckplan for the title liner (with some other random
but good artwork), and seems like a truly great package for the
size and money.  I suggest it highly.  I also intend to convince GDW
that this is a great format to do adventures in (bigger than Challenge
can run, but a whole lot less hassle than a "real" adventure, which
is 4-6 times as big).

- -george william herbert
gwh@lurnix.com  gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu  gwh@soda.berkeley.edu  gwh@gnu.ai.mit.edu


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4133
Date:        Thu, 14 May 92 20:15:32 EDT
From: Rybalchenko Andrey <KN3C%MARISTB@VM.MARIST.EDU>
Subject: Unsubscribe

Can i ask you, how to unsubscribe from this list?
I leaving soon, and this account will be dead...
Can somebody unsubscribe me, or tell me, how to do this?
                  Thanks, Andrey.


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4134
From: Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>
Subject: Re: Rules and GM's (again)
Date: Thu, 14 May 92 22:34:00 PDT

> Cease thy foaming and smooth thy hackles, O Excitable One.

This is becoming something of a standard litany, isn't it Mike?

Sigh.  Every have one of those days?  You sit and read something
you posted earlier to some public forum or other.  With each line,
you turn a deeper shade of red, and all that runs through your mind,
over and over again, is, "My *GOD*!  Did I *REALLY* write that?
What was I thinking?"

Anyway, Mike and Steve, sorry for the inappropriate ass-chewing.
I was weaned on AD&D.  For over eight years, it was all I played
('cause nobody wanted to try anything else).  Now, it's to the
point where *any* reference triggers a Pavlovian response.

Oh, BTW...

> And as far as finding players goes, I still maintain that no players beats
> bad players every time. I can afford to be patient.

I don't know about that.  Desparation can breed a lot of (short term)
tolerance.

Actually, what I really came here to talk about is...

Richard asks:

> Okay, just what IS _your_ rule #1?  (and 2 and 3)

You want rules?  OK, here's rules.

  Rule #1.  The GM is always right.
  Rule #2.  If the GM is wrong, see Rule #1.
  Rule #3.  If the GM is still wrong, there's the door.
  Rule #4.  Don't give the GM ideas.
  Rule #5.  Don't give the *players* ideas.
  Rule #6.  Shut up.  You're *dead*.
  Rule #7.  Marguaritas and magic don't mix.

Now, for some explanations.  (Substitute the pronoun "she" for
"he" where appropriate.)

Rule #1.  It *is* the GM (DM, Ref., whatever) who's running the
game.  He creates the rules.  He is in charge.  That's the whole
concept of a "Game*MASTER*".  Anything else breeds anarchy.  If
games built on the premise that everyone on the room has the same
degree of power and control would work, why isn't the market
crawling with them?

Rule #2.  The GM is also human.  But proving he's a dope in
mid-adventure is a recipe for disaster.  If you *must* contest
his ruling, do it after the adventure.  You may convince him
that you're right and he's wrong, and even if you don't, at
least the difference of opinion won't disrupt the game for the
rest of the players.

Rule #3.  If you consistantly disagree with your GM's rules/
style/minatures color-scheme/etc., you can always leave the
game.  If you're the only one in the group who has this problem,
maybe that should tell you something.  If all the players feel
the way you do, maybe that should tell the GM something.  Be
that as it may, some people won't or can't change.  Find another
game.

Rule #4.  Definitely a rule for players.  If your GM is worth
his salt, he'll be devious enough without any prodding from you.

Rule #5.  For you GM's there, reverse Rule #4.  It goes double
for devious players.

Rule #6.  Maybe it's just common sense and common courtesy, but
my experience tells me neither are very common.  If your character
gets greased, kibitzing can be more that just inappropriate.  Of
course, depending on how your PC died, maybe your ideas aren't
all that great to begin with. :^)

Rule #7.  Ditto Gin and Jump Drives.  A brew maybe great for
that upcoming Blazers/Suns game, but it can be a really *BAD*
idea for role-playing.  Inebriation and imagination are, for
the most part, mutually exclusive.

That's enough.

(Tomorrow, I pack the SCUBA gear and take the Sillinger out over
the bar, no matter *HOW* deep the swells are!  All this sitting
around and waiting is making me itch.)

				"These guys just jumped you?  Out of
				 the blue?"
					"Aw, I had to get up anyway."
						_Silverado_
	- Mark

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4135
From: metlay@phyast.pitt.edu (metlay)
Subject: House Rules
Date: Fri, 15 May 92 10:07:40 EDT


Rule #1: Don't give the Ref ideas.

Rule #2: Keep the Ref happy.
      2a-- Feed the Ref.
      2b (of limited applicability) -- Kiss the Ref.

Rule #3: That's a LOVELY loophole; it won't work.
      3a-- Because I SAID so, that's why.

Rule #4: Don't spoil the Ref's dramatic developments.

(Famous last words: "Oh, Metlay can't kill us yet. The villain has to appear
and reveal who he is, then explain his plans to us in detail and taunt us
for being helpless while leaving us a loophole to escape and foil him in
the nick of time." --W. Dow Rieder)

Rule #5: Shut up. You're dead.
      5a-- see #3a.

THINGS TO AVOID IN A RPG:

1. Players whose introduction of their characters mentions any sort of
inanimate object in their possession, e.g. "I'm running a Marine and he
has an FGMP-16 and some way-cool cybernetically enhanced bionic arms and..."

2. Refs who are careful about in what terms their rulings are couched
when dealing with certain players.

("That's an awkward sentence, Metlay."  "Not really. Last game I
played in in college, if the girl leading the party ever had anything
bad happen to her character, the Ref (her boyfriend) slept on the couch.")

3. Refs who lean on one aspect of a game to the exclusion of all else,
e.g. "What do you mean you have to leave early? The adventure's almost
over, we only have three more melees to run through!"

4. Anyone who reads from a script. EVER.

5. Refs who laugh at their players, or vice versa.

(this list is dedicated to Mikey and Ed, the worst refs I'd ever met
in my life until I met Floyd in 1990.)

- -- 

Mike Metlay
metlay@minerva.phyast.pitt.edu
Atomic City, P.O. Box 81175, Pittsburgh, PA 15217-0675

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed May 20 21:00:12 PDT 1992
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #343: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
4136  15-May-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU The 4.5th Frontier War continues... << Here w
4137  08-May-92 bryan borich      Re: TML biweekly: Msgs 4069-4082 V26#20 << Cy
4138  08-May-92 richard@agora.rai Re: Civilians and Armed Aircraft << Dan Corri
4139  15-May-92 Adrian Hurt       Re: Computers << anaylor@mihi.une.oz.au (Adam
4140  14-May-92 "C. Roald"        Re: TML nightly: Msgs 4118-4126 V38#13 << >Th
4141  15-May-92 "C. Roald"        Re: TML nightly: Msgs 4127-4133 V38#14 << >Ok
4142  16-May-92 peschko@mermaid.m hand held computers << Adrian and M. Naylor s
4143  15-May-92 bart@sisters.cs.u My FRP Gaming "Rules" << In spite of the fact
4144  16-May-92 Traveller Mailing Re: Computers << > Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.her
4145  16-May-92 Steve_Higginbotha TCS game... << Well, someone has decided to d
4146  16-May-92 metlay@phyast.pit Apology << I want to apologize to Cynthoia Hi
4147  17-May-92 bryan borich      flaming << As someone once said.......FLAME O
4148  17-May-92 Gedeon L Trias    summer hibernation << James, Regrettably, I m
4149  17-May-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU Fission Powered Victory! << Ladies and Gentle

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4136
Date: Fri, 15 May 1992 12:31 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: The 4.5th Frontier War continues...

Here we go folks...

Enjoy.

The 4.5th Frontier War Chapter 2
	On the Trail
	   or
	Is there a doctor
	in the sector?

	Scott Kellogg
	- XI -
Traveller's Guide to Iakr Sector:  Fan Asteroid Belt
	The Fan Belt was settled 345 years ago by sufferers of Fan's
disease:  genetic disease causing malformed coils in the inner
ear.  Some malformations were likened to the shape of a fan thus
the name.  Sufferers of the disease become dizzy while in
accelerating frames of reference including vehicles and
gravitational wells.  Victims often do not live long due to
eating and balance problems.
	The Fan Belt offered a zero gravity community where people
who suffered from the condition could lead normal productive
lives.  It became a leper colony for the victims.  However,
several other conditions of sophonts respond positively to zero
gravity.  As more cases and species arrived the demand for
medical care expanded proportionately.
	The entire system has become a very cosmopolitan hospital.
Species of almost every kind are to be found there trying not to
step on each others cultural toes.  The medical research of the
entire sector is done there with equipment given from the
Imperium and Consulate.  As the two vie for prestige, everyone
profits.
	And, as the Fan Belt is only a few parsecs away from the
Zhodani Consulate, it is not surprising to find a Psi-Institute
there.
	- XII -
	Dr. Kissofman removed the blood stained rubber gloves, and
spoke into his computer.  "Autopsy John Doe, engineer of
privateer Flamboyant.  Cause of death:  poison, self inflicted.
Prussic acid contained in false tooth.
	"Physical characteristics:  one point seven one meters tall.
Hair:  blonde.  Eyes:  blue.  Skin Color:  White.  Mole on left
hand.  Racial Background:  Solomani with traces of Vilani and
Vlazhdumecta mixture typical of Iakr sector.
	"Small musculature indicates gravitational well of planet of
birth not above 1G most probably 0.7G.  Somewhat large degree of
recent retinal disintegration indicates subject spent time on planet
with thin atmosphere.  Thin atmospheres allowing more penetration of
Ultra Violet light.  Previous medical and dental operations
indicate the subject lived in conditions of between tech levels
nine and thirteen.
	"Signs of treatment of following conditions:  Removal of
wisdom teeth.  Correction of liver trouble..."
	- XIII -
	Dr. Oylessic looked on the oddest patient it had ever seen.
The human, Drert, was thirty years old, had psi-strength that
went off the normal scale while its official rating had been
five.  It had an officially recorded intelligence of five, now
unreadable, had been diagnosed as incurably psychotic, but its
chief interest at the moment was counting its toes, and
occasionally sucking on them.
	The little droyne flapped noisily to it's desk and puzzled.
"Dr. Jietlshaiepr," it squeaked, "Never I have such a case seen.
Had to guess I did, say I would that it some sort of psionic shock
was.  It a phenomena without precedence is.  Explain what
happened please."
	Jietlshaiepr told the story, the ancient artifact,
Malenkoviepr's recognition of the object, the effect it gave off,
and the changes in Drert, and the reports on everyone else.
	"I see."  The little droyne reached into a leather pouch and
produced a dark blue crystal similar in shape to the artifact.
"This an olonde is.  Used in the ceremony of casting is.  When
young droyne into a caste set is, the olonde is the focus for its
concentration.  By concentrating on it in certain way, young
droyne may open genetic codes which will in its proper caste set.
	"Also used for the training of young are they.  As you may
know, Droyne through telepathy sometimes impart knowledge and
training.  The olonde used in this is.
	"May be one used in ancient time energy stored as you of
spoke.  If so, energy released at proper time must be.  Triggered
it something did and let loose the accumulated energy in torrent,
those nearby strongly affecting."
	Jietlshaiepr rested her head in her hand.  "So, could the
presence of a young mind possibly be something like a trigger for
this... olonde?"
	"Possible it is.  Have seen I report on others of group so
affected.  Affects of change, correlate with age subject.  All
received increased psionic strength correlated with age of
subject and distance from crystal as described.  Your self,
closest, increased strength by four points and telepath become.
Pilot Niedrsha three points, now telepath is.  Engineer Shtam,
greater age, two points increased and awareness acquired.
Steward Miakr youngest:  five points increased.  Telepath has
become.
	"Significant this is, think I.  But olonde activate did not
until patient crystal touched."
	Jietlshaiepr's eyebrows knitted, "So Drert was the trigger.
Something in his psychotic mind released the energy."
	"Apparently it seems."  The little droyne stretched its
wings.  "Gunner Drert rather childlike at the moment seems.
	Drert rolled over, suspended in mid air, and went to sleep
with his toes in his mouth.
	- XIV -
	"I've plotted our course to Massina," sighed Niedrsha.
"Three jumps:  three parsecs to Talak, four more to Aramat, then
two parsecs to Massina belt.  Since we're in a bit of a hurry we
can skim fuel from gas giants rather than wait to be refueled."
	"Why go to Aramat?" asked Miakr.  "The Ine Givar didn't have
any bases there:  no clues.  We could head to Axly just as well,
at least we'd be safer from pirates in patrolled system."
	Niedrsha made a chopping motion with his hand.  "That's just
it.  It's over-patrolled.  They might pull us in to investigate.
And any bureaucratic mess is going to keep us from looking for
the doc."
	Shtam nodded, "True, the Axly race do tend to be rather
aggressive.  Independent military craft travelling through are
very thoroughly examined.  I remember once they held up an entire
convoy once because we were travelling with an armed escort."
	Miakr glanced at Vole.  "Well, I mean, if we're out to look
for Dr. Malenkoviepr, shouldn't we just skip Massina?"
	Gresha looked at the startled expressions of the rest of the
crew.  After all it seemed like a reasonable suggestion, in fact
a very good one.
	Jietlshaiepr shook her head slowly.  "We have our orders.
Our duty is to the Consulate."
	"Of course." agreed Niedrsha.
	"Indeed, and in addition, Massina, may also be as good place
as any to start our search." pointed out Shtam.  "After all,
that's where the Ine Givar, if that's who they were, contacted
him."
	Gresha sniffed, "Sorens is closer.  That's where they
contacted the Broadsword."
	Vole glanced around the room solemnly and focused on Miakr.
"Our duty is to the Consulate.  If we can get information on who
used this ship we will probably save more lives than one."
	- XV -
	One week later the Flamboyant was on it's way out of the
system.
	The emergency band burst across the bridge blaring with the
sound of an emergency locator transmitter.
	Jietlshaiepr grabbed the sensors.  "Ship just jumped in
system... 600 tons, heavy damage, radiation.  Viepchakl!  It's
one of ours!  Shivva class frigate.  Something really shot her to
pieces!  Heavy radiation.  Niedrsha, plot intercept course, there
may be survivors!"
	The Flamboyant veered around to match vectors with the
glowing hulk.  "ETA thirteen minutes.  We'll be the first ones
there." announced Niedrsha.
	A weak voice came over the band, "Mayday... Mayday...
Consular patrol frigate Uttova, Ensign Ebladatl speaking.  Come
in please.  Mayday...."
	"This is the captured corsair Flamboyant." answered
Jietlshaiepr, "Come in Uttova, do you have casualties?"
	"Affirmative, Flamboyant, request assistance.  Three crew
survivors...  Radiation burns...  They nuked us...."
	"This is the Fan Asteroid Belt Starport control," came an
authoritative voice, "Report your situation,  Uttova."
	"Jumped in from Acrolund... on interdiction patrol...
Deadhead's nuked us... Positive identification... Our relief
ship... Kinunir Cruiser... Heavy casualties... Fighters lost...
Bridge crew dead... Ensign Ebladatl now commanding...."
	- XVI -
	The Uttova was a shattered hulk.  Half of her turrets were
cracked open like nuts.  Most of the fuel tanks were shredded.
The maneuver drives were twisted like taffy.  The bridge had a hole
right through it.  While the landing bay was a fused glowing lump.
	The voice on the radio whispered weakly "Two survivors
unconscious...  Rest crew dead.  You'll have to pull us out... I
got crew in rescue balls... I'm in a suit...  Air lock controls
out... Have to cut in... Cabin pressure up... can't control... Cut
in starboard lock... Starboard lock... Cut in..."
	"I read you Ensign." radioed Jietlshaiepr.  "We'll get you
out in five minutes.
	"Shtam, ready the gig.  Niedrsha, you stay with the ship.
Gresha, Miakr, Vole, were going over there.  Battle dress, every
one.  The radiation level is safe for about forty minutes
exposure.  Plenty of time."
	The lock was obscured by wreckage.  The twisted ribs of hull
bracing were bent back jaggedly over the entrance.  Hours of work
with a laser welder.
	"Uttova, do you read?" asked Jietlshaiepr.
	A whisper came back.  "...Yes..."
	"Move away from the lock, we are going to have to cut with a
plasma gun."
	"Affirm..."
	Gresha pointed the gun to the lock, angled away so as not to
fire into the ship when it would penetrate the door.  Plasma
leapt out.  The hull ribs glowed.  Again the plasma blasted,
licking away the outer most of the obstructing struts.  A third
blast ate away at the abstract sculpture of twisted struts and
plates, and a fog sprang from the seals of the airlock as the
ship's atmosphere began to leak away.
	"This may take some time..." thought Gresha aloud.
	Two minutes later they had a hole large enough to see
through.  Jietlshaiepr floated carefully among the molten
wreckage to the hole.
	The inside's of the ship was a mess.  Duct work and pipes
had collapsed, but she could see a place where she could stand.
"Roland's cruiser did a great job on this ship."
	Jietlshaiepr vanished and reappeared inside the hulk.
She caught herself from falling as she adjusted to the ship's
artificial gravity field.
	A vacc suited figure lay on the deck among five inflated
rescue balls.  "Ensign Ebladatl?"
	The figure lay unmoving.  Jietlshaiepr checked the face
plate.  Grease and blood was smeared on the young Ensign's face.
"Dead?"
	An eye lid fluttered, no more.
	Ebladatl was like a feather in her arms as Jietlshaiepr
teleported outside.
	"Vole, take him to the gig.  I'll have to teleport back in
for the others."
	- XVII -
	Shtam piloted the Gig back to the hospital complex.  "ETA,
one hour fifteen minutes."
	Jietlshaiepr moved quickly, the two crewmen were the worst
off.  She and Vole stripped them of their irradiated rescue
balls.  Radiation sickness well advanced.  High fever, hair gone,
skin deterioration, tumors... "Good thing we're in the Fan Belt."
	"Hmm.  Looks like Ebladatl has been regenerating himself,
he's psionic."  Jietlshaiepr carefully examined the medical
readouts.  "Traces of Psi-double, probably taken a week ago.
give him another and he may be able to regenerate in a few hours.
He must have been using the last of his energy to send the
distress call.
	"Shtam, have the hospital standing by with two doses of Psi-
double."
	- XVIII -
	Two hours later the Zhodani fleet crews were boiling over.
The Deadhead's had fired on the Uttova.  They'd been asking for
war for years.  This time they'd get what's coming to them.  Ten
Zhdits class destroyer escorts, eight Zhdine missile corvettes,
four Shivva class patrol frigates prepared to jump to Acrolund to
catch the Impie if it was still lurking there.
	High Consul Tlievriashav listened briefly to Jietlshaiepr
but was not convinced.  Their sighting was interesting but surely
there was some mistake.  The Imperials would not let one of their
newest battle cruisers fall into pirate hands.  And the
disposition of all such cruisers was known:  All in service save
one converted to a prison, two destroyed, one lost, presumed
destroyed years ago.
	Besides Tlievriashav had seen the Kliemoshie, the
instruments could not be considered that reliable anyhow.  The
Ine Givar ship could not have been a Kinunir class cruiser.  And
why would the Ine Givar attack their own allies anyway?
	Such a cruiser would be a valuable resource, what private
group would risk damaging it by tangling with a Consular patrol
frigate on an interdicted planet?  Acrolund had nothing of value,
it's own nuclear war had seen to that.
	No, the lying deadheads must have struck.  They came in with
the cruiser pretending to be the relief ship and attacked.  Why?
Who knows what devious plot the vicious liars had in mind.
Consular-Imperial relations were running fairly smoothly at the
moment.  But, with the Fourth Frontier War twenty years old, is
the Imperium now secretly preparing for war?
	- XIX -
	Ensign Ebladatl smiled at his nurse and scratched him behind
his armor plated ears.  "Good boy."
	Vole looked at Ebladatl for a moment before replying.
"Woof.  Woof.  Now hold still, I'm not finished with your
physical."  Vole shook his head slowly to himself.
	"Well, Ensign you seem to be doing well." commented
Jietlshaiepr as she watched the proceedings.
	Ebladatl grinned broadly at the curvaceous surgeon.  "I sure
am, Doc!  I owe you my life.  I can't really thank you enough...
How are Selen and Chtanch?"
	"They'll recover.  Not as quickly as you, artificial
regeneration takes some time."
	"Thank you!"
	"Wait till you get my bill." she quipped.
	"Send it to the Navy."
	"Suppose you tell me about the attack."
	"Well sure!" smiled the Ensign eager to impress the
beautiful surgeon.  "We picked up a ship bearing in on us, but
with it's transponder cut off.  They wouldn't answer our radio
either.  The captain gave the order to scramble the fighters so I
ordered them off, I was the fighter coordinator.  The fighters
came in close enough for visual, and with telepathy, I could see
through their eyes it was a Kinunir class cruiser.
	"Now, let me explain about Acrolund, since the nuclear war
there, the Consulate and Imperium have been blockading the system
so that the planet will be forced to get back on it's own two
feet.  We protect them from pirate raiders that would want to
plunder the place, and generally keep it safe.
	"Our relief ship was to be Imperial one because we trade off
in shifts.  Any way, we assumed there were some communication
problems with them so we held our fire."
	Fury crept into the young man's voice, "Then, the stupid
liars knocked half of our fighters out of existence.
	"We fought, but their first hit knocked our nuclear damper
out.  They put a nuke into us that fused the maneuver drives and
half the power plant.  The laser and missile turrets burned away.
I think we hit them once or twice.  The captain ordered the
fighters back, we were going to jump out system.
	"But as they docked a nuke destroyed our landing dock and
holed the bridge.  I think I was knocked out for a moment, then I
realized rest of the bridge crew was dead."
	Ebladatl took a deep breath, "Suddenly, I was in command."
	He paused a moment and sat silently before continuing,
"The jump was laid in so I hit the button.  I barely made it into
a pressurized compartment just before the ship jumped.
	"I had to care for the survivors 'cause I was the only one
who could keep going.  I took psi-drugs to keep regenerating
myself, but there was only a few doses.  I was using my
regeneration almost constantly for a week.  Loosing ground
though.  I had to store some before I could have the strength to
make the transmissions.  But I made it.
	"I guess you know the rest of the story."
	"Are you certain that the crew aboard the cruiser was
Imperial?" asked Shtam.
	"Of course they were!  Who else would attack us?  And who
else would be in that kind of cruiser?"
	Shtam quickly explained the presence of the Ine Givar
cruiser.
	Ebladatl didn't even consider the thought. "Why should the
Ine Givar attack us?  They're psionic.  No, it had to be the
Deadheads.  They have no honesty in their culture, their whole
system is based on lies!  They're as bad as the Vargr!  You can't
trust any of them!  If I run into the Deadheads again, they won't
know what hit them." Ebladatl promised.
	- XX -
	Aramat Gas Giant
	Gas giants are often the main source of fuel in frontier
systems.  The fuel is free albeit unrefined, and when a ship need
only refuel one can easily jump into a descending orbit using the
forward momentum of the ship.  The ship opens its intakes, makes
a quick fuel pass, close up scoops and raise itself back to jump
point.  The process takes about 10 hours.  However, during this
time the ship is vulnerable to attack.  Inside the gravity well
of the giant there are few escape routes.  With pirates above,
and crushing pressure below, one gets to feel a bit like the
filling in a sandwich which is about to be eaten.
	"Keep a close watch on the sensors, Jiet." warned Niedrsha,
"We don't need any more surprises from unwanted friends."
	"Everything is clear."  muttered Jietlshaiepr, "Nothing on
the neutrino detector.  I'd have found anything the size of a
scout ship or larger by now."
	"There still could be fighter craft.  A larger ship nearby,
but out of range.  I want a clear scan before we start a dive
into the grav well."
	"Ok," she sighed, "Nothing on the neutrino detectors.
Switching to passive EMS scan."
	Jietlshaiepr studied the screen.  "Nothing accelerating out
there.  There's some junk that's orbiting the planet but it's not
maneuvering... that's odd... There's an asteroid in a cometary
orbit.  It comes pretty close to the atmosphere.  It must have
been captured recently by the gas giant or it would have burned
up.  Probably will soon anyway."
	"So what." voiced Niedrsha.
	"Well, it's just that it... Hold it... Displacement of
asteroid three hundred tons... exact.  It's a ship.  Red alert!
Going active!"
	Niedrsha wrestled with the controls while eyeing the
tactical display.  The Flamboyant raised her nose.  The ship
began blazing out of the gas giant's gravity well at four G's.
"Here we go!"
	Jietlshaiepr read off the readings.  "I make the target out
to be a three hundred ton ship, refined metal hull, dispersed
structure.  Power unknown.  Acceleration unknown.  It's just
sitting there."
	"Then we've got em." grined Niedrsha.  "Prepare to open
fire."
	"It's still just sitting there.  In fact... wait a minute...
It's tumbling!"
	"Tumbling?"
	Jietlshaiepr looked up.  "Power out put zero.  Maneuver
zero.  It's just drifting in space."
	"It's a trap." said Niedrsha decisively.  "We'll head out
and continue scanning."
	Shtam came over the intercom.  "If it is a trap, we should
probably power down the reactor.  We will be less conspicuous to
a neutrino detector."
	"Right, Shtam." replied Niedrsha, "Take the power down to
factor four.  With that I still have enough maneuvering power.
When I've got us in a safe orbit, cut it down to minimum."
	The Flamboyant continued to rise, looking in every direction
for signs of pursuit.
	- XXI -
	The Flamboyant drifted, legs drawn up tight, but with its
eyes wide.
	The other ship continued to tumble.
	Nothing moved.
	"There's nothing out there I can find." yawned Jietlshaiepr.
"No power generated, none radiated, no radio, nothing.  That ship's
as dead as garrison duty on a saturday night."
	"We've only been looking for a few hours.  I say we sit
tight and wait." warned Niedrsha.
	"How long?" asked Jietlshaiepr.
	"Till we're sure."
	"I'm sure." she sighed.  "Look, in its orbit, the ship comes
pretty high out of the gravity well, probably jumped in system
with a high momentum.  We can match vectors with it while it is
far away from the gas giant, make a close inspection, and not
get caught too deeply by the gravity well."
	- XXII -
	The ship began to grow on the screen.
	"Here we come to the bait." thought Niedrsha aloud.
	The ship was a strange design.  A main cylinder with three
pylons protruding from the center.  Getting closer, the cylinder
resolved itself into a dumb bell shape, but with one end
flattened along one axis.  A heavy framework obscured the lines
of the ship.  Most of the ship was painted yellow and black.
This was marred by sections painted various colors almost none of
which matched:  the effect of this was that the ship resembled
one which had been torn apart and put back together with pieces
of other ships of the same model.
	"What a fuckin' mess." snarled Niedrsha with disgust. "I've
never seen anything like it."
	"It looks familiar to me." announced Shtam anxiously from
the engine room.  "I think it's a Vargr warship design, give me a
minute, and I'll get..."
	"It's a Vixen." announced Gresha from her turret controls.
	"Of course!" shouted Shtam.  "I should have recognized it.
I have never seen one before.  Wow!"
	"She's hot." called Jietlshaiepr.  "Reading radioactives
over there."
	"What?" asked Niedrsha anxiously.
	"It's armed with nuclear warheads." she warned.
	"Any power readings?"
	"None.  I would have told you."  Jietlshaiepr closed her
eyes to concentrate.  Slowly, and hesitantly she reached out for
frequencies not used in electromagnetics.  Psionic wavelengths
were as dead as the Vixen's fusion reactor.  "Well, after all
this time, I've learned this much of telepathy:  There is no life
aboard that thing."
	"Vixens are robot missile strikers." explained Gresha.
"Usually armed with nukes."
	"They are also incapable of refueling themselves." called
Shtam.  "This one must have run out of fuel.  They are generally
used as first strike waves in wars.  A fleet of Vixens jump into
a system and attack shipping or conduct surface bombardment.
There's a robot crew so they are completely expendable.  A bit
expensive, but they are generally considered nothing more than a
missile bus.  A MIRV with a jump drive."
	"Merv?  who's Merv?" asked Miakr.
	Shtam spelled it out "Multiple independently-targetable
re-entry vehicles.  A type of missile that carries more than one
warhead."
	"Oh."
	"The Vixen carries a fifty ton missile bay, and three triple
missile turrets." continued Shtam.  "Of course no ship that small
has the structure to take the strain of that much firepower.
Generally, the ships shake themselves apart."
	"That's probably what happened to this one." commented
Jietlshaiepr.  "The hull sections show as having been under
extreme stress.  But the stress lines are odd.  The don't match...
It could be that the ship was cannibalized from several ships to
get a complete one."
	"Could the fuckin' thing be a trap?" asked Niedrsha.  "It's
got atomic warheads."
	"But there's no power being generated." objected
Jietlshaiepr.
	"It could still be booby trapped." pointed out Gresha.
	Shtam's voice came over the intercom authoritatively,
"Right, I suggest we send over a boarding party consisting of
myself, Gresha, and Miakr.  We can investigate it without risking
the rest of the ship."
	"Why us?" asked Miakr.
	"I'll go to evaluate the engines, Gresha obviously knows a
Vixen on sight, we need you to evaluate the condition of the
robots aboard."
	"I'll come too.  He'll be needing me." announced Vole.
	- XXIII -
	Gresha pulled the gig close to the tumbling Vixen.
	"Any idea's on how to get in?" asked Miakr.
	"There'll be an emergency manual hatch switch beside the
main airlock." reported Gresha.  "'Course that's the best place
to leave a trap.  Our best bet's the turrets.  The ship'll be
depressurized because there's no living crew.  We can just open
on up the inspection hatch, and get on in."
	"Easier said than done." observed Vole.  "The ship is
tumbling end over end at a rate of one revolution every seven
point three four seconds.  With a radius of fifteen meters that
will make centripetal force of..."
	"Eleven meters per second per second centripetal
acceleration." interrupted Miakr.  "Just over one standard G."
	Shtam picked up the tethers he had ready, "We will secure
lines to the hull framework and climb to the turret on the pylon.
Any of you ever done any repelling before?"
	--------------
We now return control of your TML to you...

Scott Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4137
Date: 08 May 92 05:32:54 EDT
From: bryan borich <70541.1410@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Re: TML biweekly: Msgs 4069-4082 V26#20

Cynthia,
     For what it's worth part of the personailty of the Vargr was
taken from Wolf behaviour by the writers.



------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4138
From: richard@agora.rain.COM (Richard Johnson)
Subject: Re: Civilians and Armed Aircraft
Date: Fri, 8 May 92 5:32:33 EDT


Dan Corrin says:
....

:I know the discussion is concerning starships, but currently civilians
:cannot aquire armed aircraft (which is the closest analogy to starships).

Intersting.  I just recently got a thing from the EAA (experimental 
aircraft association) discussing the FAA's (federal aviation 
administration - a government body) new policy on civilians with 
privately-held surplus USSR aircraft.

You're supposed to remove or "render inoperable" the guns.  Remove all
other weapons *and their mounts*, and remove or "render inoperable" the
ejection seat.  I guess they don't want abandonded aircraft coming down
on people's heads.  

Looks the policy is one of making sure the main differences between the
boy scouts and the army are "the scouts have adult leadership and the army
has heavy artillery"  :=)
...
...
However, most pilots I know _do_ carry sidearms, which is a contravention
of the rules.
- -- 
Richard Johnson      richard@agora.rain.com
Qui custodii ipsos custodes?

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4139
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Computers
Date: Fri, 15 May 92 18:49:29 BST

anaylor@mihi.une.oz.au (Adam Naylor) writes:
>
>  A tech 11 hand computer (about 1/5 the size of a milk container) has
>  a 20 meg hard disk and 2 meg memory . 

A TL 8 hand computer can have 2 meg RAM.  Talk to someone with a Psion
Series 3 or a Hewlett-Packard 95.

A TL 9, or maybe even late TL 8 hand computer will have 20 meg of something.
It won't be a hard disc as we know it, because gyroscopic effects would
make using a hard disc in a hand computer a bad idea.  (An ACR with a 20 MB
hard disc supplying both gyro-stabilisation and data on the enemy's forces
might be an idea, though. :-)  But I would not be surprised to see some
sort of chip become available, such as the next generation of Flash EPROM,
which allows that sort of storage in a hand computer.

And a TL 11 hand computer?  That would probably have at least 100 MB in
some sort of memory, be it RAM, EPROM or whatever is being used at TL 11.

- -- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4140
Date: Thu, 14 May 92 23:23 -0300
From: "C. Roald" <HOBBIT@AC.DAL.CA>
Subject: Re: TML nightly: Msgs 4118-4126 V38#13

>The closest to 100 tons of TNT I have ever read about was the Tall boy
>Earthquake bombs of WWII.  25 (?) tons of TNT.  They were dropped from
....
>Doesn't really help with your question though does it?

I can give you a stat on the other side.  In 1917, a Belgian relief ship 
collided with a French munitions carrier in Halifax Harbour; the Mont 
Blanc caught fire and 2 766 tons of picric acid, TNT and guncotton 
exploded.  Two and a half square kilometers of Halifax were flattened by 
the blast, the subsequent tidal wave, or the raging fire started when 
buildings collapsed in on burning stoves and furnaces. Windows were shattered 
in Truro, a hundred kilometers away.

The Halifax Explosion remains the world's greatest man-made non-nuclear 
explosion.

Bit of trivia and a bit of data. Help any?

     c.r.

- --
I don't know what's weirder--that you're fighting a stuffed animal, or
that you seem to be losing.		-- Susie

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4141
Date: Fri, 15 May 92 01:43 -0300
From: "C. Roald" <HOBBIT@AC.DAL.CA>
Subject: Re: TML nightly: Msgs 4127-4133 V38#14

>Okay, just what IS _your_ rule #1?  (and 2 and 3)
>
>At our house the rules are:
>
>1.  It's only a game.
>2.  Bring the GM coffee (and/or food and/or whatever).
>3.  Don't give the GM ideas.

We only really have one explicit rule, so it must be #1.

RULE 1.	 The GM is God.

I guess we go by the corollary to this, too, namely:

RULE 1a. Bring God cookies.


	c.r.

- --
I don't know what's weirder--that you're fighting a stuffed animal, or
that you seem to be losing.		-- Susie

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4142
From: peschko@mermaid.micro.umn.edu (Edward Peschko)
Subject: hand held computers
Date: Sat, 16 May 92 0:58:32 CDT


Adrian and M. Naylor say:  
> >
> >  A tech 11 hand computer (about 1/5 the size of a milk container) has
> >  a 20 meg hard disk and 2 meg memory . 
> 
> A TL 8 hand computer can have 2 meg RAM.  Talk to someone with a Psion
> Series 3 or a Hewlett-Packard 95.
> 
> A TL 9, or maybe even late TL 8 hand computer will have 20 meg of something.
> It won't be a hard disc as we know it, because gyroscopic effects would
> make using a hard disc in a hand computer a bad idea.  (An ACR with a 20 MB
> hard disc supplying both gyro-stabilisation and data on the enemy's forces
> might be an idea, though. :-)  But I would not be surprised to see some
> sort of chip become available, such as the next generation of Flash EPROM,
> which allows that sort of storage in a hand computer.
> 
> And a TL 11 hand computer?  That would probably have at least 100 MB in
> some sort of memory, be it RAM, EPROM or whatever is being used at TL 11.
> 


Umm... I am afraid it gets more absurd than that, given modern technology.... 
Apparently, some researcher in California has come out with a 3D memory storage
unit that holds about 4 Tera (yes, Tera)(!!!!)  bytes of ROM. Any part of the 
storage can be accessed (by orders of magnitude) faster than modern computers
can handle. The size: about that of a sugar cube.
	(Quick Illustrative Analogy: equivalent to -- about 1K file on every 
person on the planet, enough for 500 library of congresses, etc. etc. etc.)
	The problem: right now, information stored on the device lasts about 8
hours at room temperature, and only a couple of months at liq. helium
temperatures. (Note: any inorganic chemist who wants to become REALLY rich
might think about working on a more durable analog than what is out there today.
	I forget the details (who, when,where,etc )-- but I remember seeing it i
in the New York Times. I will post with further info.

Ed Peschko
peschko@mermaid.micro.umn.edu

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4143
Subject: My FRP Gaming "Rules"
Date: Fri, 15 May 92 23:21:53 -0700
From: bart@sisters.cs.uoregon.edu

In spite of the fact that I have little experience running
*Traveller*, here's my general FRP gaming rules...

1.  GMs and players incapable of maintaing civilized adult
    interpersonal interactions under *all* circumstances need
    not apply.  The fact that one is playing a game doesn't
    excuse one adopting a dismal standard of behavior (although
    the way certain people on this list have been going on
    lately, I'm not sure I'd want to interact with them outside
    the gaming environment either (1/2 :-)).

2.  GMs and players without a healthy or better sense of humor
    need not apply either.  This is important enough to rate
    rule #2 by itself.

3.  The GM and players are meeting to work together at having
    fun.  Anybody who's not trying hard to have fun and to help
    everybody else in the room have fun should go away.
    Corollary:  nobody "wins" at an FRP game.  Or everybody
    does.  The (real-life) competition is against boredom and
    ennui, not against each other.

4.  One only buys the rules to help keep the gaming company in
    business, and thus producing other useful gaming materials.
    One should, in fact, ignore or change the rules at any
    plausible opportunity.  Last I checked, we're doing fantasy,
    not rule-playing.  This rule will only work if the GM and
    most of the players are reasonable people.  See rules 1-3
    above.

5.  Roleplay, roleplay, roleplay.  If one has trouble
    roleplaying, one should pick a character so far from one's
    own self image that one *has* to roleplay to play at all.
    The GM must be a roleplayer par excellence.

6.  No fewer than 3 players (excluding GM), no more than 6.
    These numbers are completely empirical, and the *very best*
    groupings can probably get away with 7 players, while lame
    groupings should have no more than 4, if they choose to
    play at all.

7.  Always try to find a convenient resolution (in the music-
    theoretical sense) within 3-4 hours of the start of the
    gaming session.  People's brains can't take more continuous
    gaming than that.  (Of course, second and even third
    sessions are both permissible and encouraged, but the group
    should resolve things quite a bit and take at least a
    half-hour break first.)  Again, these numbers are empirical,
    but highly recommended.

Thanks much for an interesting exercise -- the process of
formalizing and ordering these rules really helped me see what
I've been doing.  Major flames, anyone?

					Bart Massey
					bart@cs.uoregon.edu

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4144
Date: Sat, 16 May 92 15:54:36 EDT
From: Traveller Mailing List Mail <tml@engrg.uwo.ca>
Subject: Re: Computers


> Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
> 
> anaylor@mihi.une.oz.au (Adam Naylor) writes:
> >
> >  A tech 11 hand computer (about 1/5 the size of a milk container) has
> >  a 20 meg hard disk and 2 meg memory . 
> 
> 
> A TL 9, or maybe even late TL 8 hand computer will have 20 meg of something.
> It won't be a hard disc as we know it, because gyroscopic effects would
> make using a hard disc in a hand computer a bad idea.  (An ACR with a 20 MB
[...]

Late Tech 8 or tech 9??? What about today's technology? I just read this 
in the latest (May 1992 p61) issue of Network Computing:

GRiD has announced PalmPAD, the first wearable pen computer, a 2.8 pound
full-featured pen-based PC with a 6.5 inch backlit screen, 2Mb of RAM, and
a slot for a 20-Mb *solid state* "Disk Drive". molded rubber and plastic
package that can pass a three foot drop test on concrete. One cable provides
power and comm link allowing well-dressed power users to turn their belts
into expansion buses. Dubbed Belt Bus, the "LAN that is worn around your
belt" will accommodate "future belt-mounted peripherals, such as printers, 
magnetic stripe readers, and batteries". The main unit's grip is hollowed
out to fit either 2,400-bps data-fax modem or a spread-spectrum radio
modem (microwave technology). Base price: US$ 2,895

				-Dan


Dan Corrin, Network Manager, Mechanical Engineering, UWO, London, Ontario
InterNet: dan@engrg.uwo.ca.                                (519) 661-3834
TML/CZ/FrameUsers/Consim FTP site: sunbane.engrg.uwo.ca (129.100.100.12)     

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4145
Date: Sat, 16 May 92 17:30:10 CST
From: Steve_Higginbotham@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US (Steve Higginbotham)
Subject: TCS game...

Well, someone has  decided to drop out of my TCS game.  Anyone out there
interested in taking over his position?  Exact identity will be provided
privately if you are interested, since I don't want to give any
hypothetical enemies the advantage of knowing noone is at home.

Later...

- -- Via DLG Pro v0.991

Steve_Higginbotham@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US

I have learned to use the word "impossible" with the greatest caution.
                                    --W. von Braun

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4146
From: metlay@phyast.pitt.edu (metlay)
Subject: Apology
Date: Sat, 16 May 92 23:00:33 EDT


I want to apologize to Cynthoia Higginbotham for my rudeness in my
recent posting. She got in the way when I cut loose on a subject 
I feel strongly about, while tired and under a lot of stress, and
she in no way deserved that kind of vitriol. Mea culpa. 

- -- 

Mike Metlay
metlay@minerva.phyast.pitt.edu
Atomic City, P.O. Box 81175, Pittsburgh, PA 15217-0675

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4147
Date: 17 May 92 08:51:25 EDT
From: bryan borich <70541.1410@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: flaming

    As someone once said.......FLAME ON

    The following message includes a note from GDW (guess they are tired
about being flamed personally). But first I want to get two cents in
on a couple of things.

    To make a long message short:

    FIRST OFF, the last couple of bundles have included some FLAMES,
personally I'm not particularly interested in watching gamers flame
each other about good GM/Player vs. bad GM/Player, I've heard it all
before, and especially since I have to pay for the Internet access,
I don't appreciate bandwidth taken up by wasted words (even if I didn't
pay, I don't appreciate the wasted storage). SO IF YOUR GOING TO FLAME
each other keep it PRIVATE.

    Secondly, I'm tired of hearing about the same complaints about
Traveller or MT (new ones are okay). What I would be interested in seeing
is fixes, or helpful suggestions and I haven't seen as many of those
as I would like to see.

    And as for a third generation of Traveller, considering that the
game is nearly as old as D&D (or AD&D to you younger guys <grin>), a third
edition is perhaps not out of line, especially as the second was somewhat
incomplete (to phrase it one way at least).

=========================     GDW MESSAGE   =========================

Item    7187179                 92/05/14        20:58
From:   GDW.SUPPORT                     Loren K. Wiseman
To:     B.BORICH                        Bryan J. Borich

Bryan,
     Could you send the following note to Steve Higginbottham on TML?

 Steve,
      As it happens, I am a GDW employee, and I know what a neutrino is
(and I don't think its an itty-bitty neutron).
     Do you make a habit of calling people you haven't met idiots, or
is this something you reserve for GDW alone?
       Loren K. Wiseman

 Thanks
=END=

=========================    END MESSAGE    =========================


OTHER MESSAGES,

Catie Helm,
    I believe it was you that mentioned a write-up on a race called
"Racoonoids", I might be interested in such an article (name would
definitely have to be changed though, too Space Operish to me).


    <CYBERTECHNOLOGY> Most game systems nowadays presume the the technology
use the brains normal existing nervous system pathways (as do some modern day
prosthetic devices).
    Now about 16 years I do recall reading articles that talked about direct
brain/computer hookups that did not use the existing pathways. They tended
to presume it would be easier to map the brain out and develop the equipment
to hook in. At that time they expected the technology to be available around
the mid 90's. About the only technology that I am aware of that currently
exists is the wristwatch pagers and credit card radios (providing the
communications pathway to the computer database) and some work done
use old apple computers to help paraplegics walk. But no direct brain
interface yet (although those developments are about 2-3 years old too).
    About the only possible problem with cybertechnology is that
Nanotechnology might quickly replace it in part.


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4148
Date: Sun, 17 May 1992 13:43:21 -0500
From: Gedeon L Trias <gltg1034@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu>
Subject: summer hibernation


James,

Regrettably, I must ask that I be removed from the TML for the duration
of the summer.  I look forward to comming back on line in august.
My thanks to the TML for much enjoyable reading.

Thanks

Ged Trias

gltg1034.uxa.cso.uiuc.edu

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4149
Date: Sun, 17 May 1992 17:31 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: Fission Powered Victory!

Ladies and Gentlemen,

You all have seen me get up on my soap box from time to time to
complain, but It isn't very often that I've seen someone step up
on one to proclaim victory!  :-)

Challenge 61 is out.  Just read through it.

There is a pretty good adventure thing by Terry McInnes concerning
a nuclear powered wet navy on TL 6 Aramanx (Powderkeg of the
Towers Cluster)

(Well *I* liked it anyway.  Remember who it was who put out so many
Wet Navy designs before there were any rules to do so!  And most of
those ships were TL 6 too!  :-)

But what is the excitment about?  I hear you all wondering.  Well,
Fission power.  They have finally revised the fission power fuel
requirements.  I can't exactly figure out what they did, but I have
been able to get the following approximations from their ship
designs.

The nuclear fission reactor power plant now provides:
Power Output:	   0.2MW per Kiloliter of power plant.
Fuel consumption:  0.05Kl of fuel per 360 days.

(Fuel consumption is still way to high, but it is better than it was before)

Weight and cost of the plant I have not calculated.

Fuel consumption of Fission plants has been a pet peeve of mine
for a while.  Ever since I calculated that the USS Nautilus would
have consumed 90 percent of it's mass in uranium if it had been built
according to the original MegaTrav specs.  :-P

So, this is kinda neat. (But only to the design freaks out there)  But
it does bring some interesting things up.  Using the above power plant
(TL6) it is JUST barely possible to built a traveller starship that
can be fueled for an entire year.  Rather than 30 days as with normal
Fusion power.  (The main problem is weight)

So... Fusion is less efficient than Fission?  How interesting... :-(
(Sigh)

What is worse is that the above reactor is TL 6.  Now imagine what
increases in efficiency there would be in a higher tech fission plant?
Well with the more advanced shielding from superdense materials.  Not to
mention nuclear dampers to play with, what is a TL 15 fission plant gonna
look like?

Well, despite this, I consider it a victory.  SOMEBODY up there finally
noticed that the fission plants were WAY off.  I think Rob Dean once
mentioned to someone that fission plants as stated were rediculous.  Maybe
somehow it was that mention that worked it's way into the acticle.  Or
maybe someone up there read one of my endless tirades on how nuclear
powered designs were completely impossible with MegaTrav.  Or (gasp!)
someone was smart enough to figure it out by themselves!

Nevertheless, it is a small step forward to bringing Trav closer to
reality!  YAHOO!  :-)

What next I wonder?  Will GDW begin making MORE corrections where Trav is
WAY off in terms of reality?  Well... Lemme get my list...  Lessee...

Thrust to weight ratio?
Where every Type A Free trader has the thrust to weight ratio 3 times that
of an SR-71 and is barely able to reach Mach 1...

Aircraft engine rated thrusts?
Where every engine has five or six times the thrust it should have?

What else?

Scott "2G" Kellogg
One small step for TML,
One giant leap for TDR!

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

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TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed May 20 21:00:22 PDT 1992
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #344: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
4150  17-May-92 Wally_Hartshorn@q What's the story on NeoTraveller? << I've bee
4151  18-May-92 Steve_Higginbotha Re: idiots... << Bryan, could you see that Lo
4152  18-May-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU Re: Proposed Alternate Starship Combat in Tra
4153  18-May-92 gwh@lurnix.COM    Re: Armed Aircraft << Not that it has any sig
4154  18-May-92 gwh@lurnix.COM    MegaTrav Cramped Engine Rooms design rule << 
4155  18-May-92 Orcinus orca      Re: Proposed alternate starship combat << > }
4156  18-May-92 Orcinus orca      Re: Cramped engine rooms << > If a drive has 
4157  19-May-92 "J.A.F.O."        Nuclear dampers and alien romance << 1) I rec
4158  19-May-92 "C. Roald"        Re: cramped engine rooms << > If a drive has 
4159  19-May-92 Steve_Higginbotha engine rooms and starship combat... << George
4160  19-May-92 Hans Rancke-Madse Addendum to Steve's reply << Steve Higginboth

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4150
Date: Sun, 17 May 92 09:08:49 CST
From: Wally_Hartshorn@quest.athenanet.COM (Wally Hartshorn)
Subject: What's the story on NeoTraveller?

I've been out of touch with the Traveller net community for a few months. 
Can someone tell me what we finally learned from GDW about NeoTraveller (or
whatever they're going to call it)?

- -- Via DLG Pro v0.991

Wally Hartshorn | nstar!pallas!quest!Wally_Hartshorn  | The Quest
                | Wally_Hartshorn@quest.athenanet.com | (217) 546-7608

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4151
Date: Mon, 18 May 92 10:11:11 CST
From: Steve_Higginbotham@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US (Steve Higginbotham)
Subject: Re: idiots...

Bryan, could you see that Loren Wiseman sees this:

>Bryan,
>     Could you send the following note to Steve Higginbottham on TML?
>
> Steve,
>      As it happens, I am a GDW employee, and I know what a neutrino
>is (and I don't think its an itty-bitty neutron).
>     Do you make a habit of calling people you haven't met idiots, or
>is this something you reserve for GDW alone?
>       Loren K. Wiseman
>
> Thanks
 
Hmmm...
I ususally call anyone who can't spell my name correctly (when He/she
is copying it from other written matter) an idiot, but let that pass.
 
Reasons for thinking the people who generated MT are idiots:
 
     1)  COACC.  I'm one of the few people who post to the TML
regularly who LIKED COACC.  But I NEVER use it, because the various
engines presented on page 32 all have performances that are out to
lunch.  None of those engines (except the fusion rocket) have NOT been
built, so it should have been a simple matter to look up actual
thrust/fuel usage/mass figures, and use them.  The people responsible
didn't bother, so you have rockets with higher Isp than jets.  Your
(yes, I know that you personnally had nothing to do with COACC (or at
least your name isn't mentioned on the credits)) fusion rocket has an
Isp of 2,000,000,000 and change.  Which translates to an exhaust
velocity of 19,656,000 Km/s, which you should notice is 65.565 times
the speed of light.
     2)  Neutrino detectors.  You all inserted a neutrino detector
into your starship design sequence that fits in a suitcase.  This
device was supposed to be able to detect the neutrino emmissions from
a 10Kw power plant at long range (if it couldn't detect a 10Kw power
plant, then the 10Kw rating was pretty silly).  Considering what we
know about neutrinos, its fairly safe to say that catching enough of
them to make detection meaningful would require a substance, which, if
plated over a ship as armour, would make the ship immune to trivial
things like meson guns, particle beams, and nuclear weapons.  We
bogused up an explanation that didn't require perfect armour to be
invented along with the neutrino detector, but I doubt our explanation
could work unless the detector were the size of a Mac truck, as
opposed to a small suitcase.
     3)  Spacecraft with a density 4+ times that of platinum.  Try
it.  Design a spacecraft with armour 115 (bonded superdense, of
course).  Put all the usual contents (J-drive, M-drive, P-plant, etc)
inside.  Then divide computed mass by computed volume.  Density 85+.
     4)  10,000 year old technology that has never been improved
enough to bring the price down from point of introduction (LPHG grav
modules)
     5)  A trade system which makes merchandise more expensive if
BUILT (not bought) away from a large rail-center.  I can believe that
the products of Nakege are more expensive to buy at Efate, but I find
it hard to believe that when I go to Nakege, they are marking things
up above the price I would have to pay elsewhere.  Great way to make
sure I don't go there, terrible way to assume economics work.
     6)  For that matter, a trade system in an adventure kind of game
that encourages the players to stay near the center of civilization. 
Arguably the best thing to do with your shiny new ship is to run back
and forth between Efate and Louzy until it gets paid off.  You get
gobs of money that you would never see wandering around among "E" and
"D" starports in the boonies.
     7)  The generation of star types for the worlds of the Spinward
Marches that places Ag worlds around M7 V (0534, 1526, 2231), M6 V
(0614, 1817, 2908), M9 V (0710, 0732, 2523, 3004), M5 V (1210, 3138),
M8 VI (1912), M9 D (2324), F3 D (2912), none of which are in the
habitable zone, because there IS NO HABITABLE ZONE for those stars. 
And if you can get "Ag" without being in the habitable zone, then why
is "Ag" even meaningful, when ANYONE can grow crops under ideal
conditions in a dome?
     8)  Trade class "In", which assumes that you cannot have lots of
industry without a polluted atmosphere, even though the major source
of air pollution (burning oil/coal/etc) stopped with the advent of
fusion power some thousands of years ago.
     9)  Fission power plants for vehicles/starships with fuel usage
rather more than 1000 times as high as REAL fission plants have.  By
your rules, the submarine I was on should have had to carry 58,500
tons of fuel to operate as it did.  Since the boat only massed
7000-odd tons, I'm pretty sure it DIDN'T carry that much fuel.  This
is information available in any good university library.  Along with
that, fissionable fuel that has a density higher than iridium.
     10)  Laser/maser communicators that use more power than radios.
     11)  Hard Times.  Which either should be MUCH worse than it is,
or not nearly so bad as it is.  You managed to find the ONE point to
stabilize at that is unstable - it should either fix itself quickly
(ten years or so), or collapse back to the stone age (in a century or
less).  And the adventure/campaign in Hard Times provides the "good
guys" with a ship that can beat the whole "bad guy" fleet without
assistance.  So why bother with the rest of the adventure/campaign?
     12)  Data dsiplay headsets.  Introduced at TL13 in MT. 
Introduced four or five years ago in the real world.
 
     I'm frankly getting tired of typing, so I'll stop here.  Is this
enough reason for me to suspect the MT designers are idiots?  If not,
I'll gladly send more.
 
     But, be that as it may, I was speaking largely facetiously when I
called you all "idiots".  I think you all made a great TRY at
integrating the disparate elements in your rules.  I just wish it had
been a great success.  You introduced a task system (which is great!),
and a vehicle system (which falls apart near the limits), then didn't
bother to integrate starship design/combat into the vehicle system. 
You added in aircraft, without ever bothering to insert into the rules
a good reason for them existing after the introduction of grav.  You
publish modules where ships specifically described as having no fuel
scoops are seen to be scooping fuel at a gas giant (Knightfall). 
"Fighting Ships of the Shattered Imperium" (Shattered Ships of the
Fighting Imperium?) includes a large number of ships that violate your
own rules (check the armour values assigned to BB-11, BB-12, BL-13,
BM-15, BH-14, BH-15), and almost no ships that are especially
combat-effective.  That's just careless, sloppy work with a bad
spreadsheet, which is supposed to be caught by editors.
 
     BTW, I do NOT disapprove of your third edition of Traveller.  And I
don't approve of it because of your second edition, but in spite of it. 
But let's see some good work, with an editor who EDITs, rather than
spell-checks with his word-processor.  And a little reality checking
wouldn't hurt, either.
 
     Last comments:  If you need someone to give something a fine-tooth
"internal logic check", I'm always here.  And you would probably get
more MT stuff for Challenge if you (a) payed a little better, or (b)
tried less hard to appear as if you were dumping MT in your eternal
quest to separate us from more of our money.  At the very least, I'd
send you stuff better than most of the stuff you do publish for MT.  And
WHY did you dump 2300AD and 1889???  What was done was among your best
work since the original Traveller, but now it's gone, never to return...
 
                              ---Steve Higginbotham

PS.  And I also call the people at DGP idiots on a regular basis.  More
often than I call GDW people idiots, in fact...

- -- Via DLG Pro v0.991

Steve_Higginbotham@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US

I have learned to use the word "impossible" with the greatest caution.
                                    --W. von Braun

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4152
Date: Mon, 18 May 1992 12:23 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: Re: Proposed Alternate Starship Combat in Traveller

Good (insert time of day) Ladies and Gentlemen,

This is one that's been sitting on my back burner for a bit.
Sorry this took me so long to get back to, I've been busy and there was a
lot here to read over and consider.

}From: bryan borich <70541.1410@CompuServe.COM>
}Subject: (4095) Alternate Starship Combat System
}Variant starship combat rules. Fighters have more chance to knock out a
}battleship, but only if they are in large formations. Ships or fighters
}with armor-120 can now be damaged by weapons smaller than factor-T.

Hmm, according to the design tables in the Referee's Guide, this should NOT
be a problem until Tech Level 24.  (Max armor is TL *5)  So the max armor
available in the Imperium (That *I* wanna deal with) is Armor=75G at TL 15).
But then again, Shattered Ships of the Squabbling Imperium is chock full of
the things and other assorted errors.

}2. Damage Point Computation
}  The component hit points computed during design evaluation are not used
}in the current combat rules. This variant uses them.
}  First, we will compute the damage points each type of weapons does.
}  Turret mounted weapons do 10*UCP in damage. A bay weapon does 20*UCP in
}damage. Spinal mounts do 100*UCP in damage.
}  Nuclear and anti-matter do four times the precalculated damage. Example:
}a UCP-3 turret firing nuclear missiles does 120 points of damage ((3*10)*4).

I like it.  A way we can actually USE those damage point numbers we've been
patiently calculating and recording and never using.  Sounds like a good
idea.

}  Hull. To find out when the armor factor is reduced, divide the
}inoperative value by the armor factor. The Planet has an inoperative hull
}value of 67500 and an armor factor of 50. Each 1350 hits received reduce the
}armor factor by one.

I kind of like the idea that a weapon still causes damage even though it
may not penetrate the hull.  I heartily appaud this idea.  Assigning chassis
damage is a good idea.  Also burning it's armor off sounds plausible.

}Computer. I had trouble making damage plausible without being too
}devastating. Weapons with a UCP of 1-4 give "Computer-1", UCP of 5-9 gives
}"Computer-2", and UCP-A gives "Computer-3." On exceptional success reduce the
}computer factor by an additional one.

Hmm, my reading of the damage tables must be slightly different from yours.
I understood that Computer-1 would knock one computer off line, Computer-2
takes 2, and so on.  In High Guard we knocked the computer level down.  So
what gives?

}7. Optional Sensor Rules
}  Make all sensor tasks one level less difficult if the target is in an
}adjacent hex.
}Make active sensor tasks one level more difficult:
}o if the target is within a gas giant, 
}o when attempted through a hex where a nuclear missile has exploded.
}o if target uses jamming.
}Neutrino detection:
}o If target's EMLevel is faint, give a -1 DM to neutrino scans.
}o If target's EMLevel is strong, give a +1 DM to neutrino scans.

Don't forget background neutrinos.  (The sun... high population planets
where everybody owns a fusion powered air/raft... etc.)

}Densitometer detection:
}o If target is small, give a -1 DM to densitometer scans.
}o If target is large, give a +1 DM to densitometer scans.
}o Increase detection task difficulty by one level if detection is
}attempted through a planet or moon with size 5+ or through a planetoid belt.

All the above sound like good ideas.  However the range and detection of
sensors needs work.  As far as I can see, it is just about impossible to
detect a ship at the rated range of the sensors.  Now I can understand that
a sensor could detect other ships out to far orbit range, but even with a
model 9 computer and a Far orbit range sensor, you just can't detect them
that far.  So what does a 'Far Orbit' sensor detect?  What does an
'Interstellar' sensor detect?  If the answer is nothing, why then are they
called that?

You see, my good old astigmatic Mark I eyeball is a passive sensor that can
detect objects at GALACTIC ranges.  *Without* my glasses.  But it hardly
can distinguish a ship at ranges of more than a few tens of kilometers.

Therefore, the range bands of sensors need clarification.

}Time and distance. I plan to scale down the time and distance scale in
}starship combat from 20 minutes/25000km to 4 minutes/5000km. For longer combat
}turns, more damage must be given for each hit.

Bad Idea.  In my experience, opposing ships open fire as soon as they are
within range.  (Far orbit)  With 4 minute turns and 5000 km hexes how big
a board are you gonna have to plot the movement on?  Far orbit range would
leave you with 100 hexes to worry about.  It gets rediculous!  If each hex
is a centimeter, your map needs to be a meter across.  In my experince,
combat lasts several turns say 10?  In forty minutes, ships will not close
significantly from Far Orbit ranges.  By the time they got within close range
(to use fusion guns and where meson gun performance goes up) They will be
lifeless drifting rocks burned to bits by laser batteries and missiles.

}  Movement: I am inclined to make some changes in the movement rules.
}  First, I want to make heading changes somewhat more difficult. As in
}Interceptor or Leviathan, it costs thrust points to change heading. What I
}want to do is require a certain number of hexes travelled at a given velocity
}before allowing a one hex side course change. How many hexes to travel may
}depend on both maneuver gee and/or agility. Using this rule would make it
}appropriate to limit the arc of the spinal mount to forward.

Hold it right there!  Are you telling me that a ship with (at the very least)
1 G thrust to mass ratio CAN'T bring it's nose to bear on target EVEN in
the FOUR MINUTE time intervals you suggest?  No WAY!  If a ship can not turn
faster than that, then agility would have no hope of bringing any correction
help in avoiding fire.

And given the fact that they are (and should remain) 20 minute turn intervals,
I have some trouble seeing any firing arc restrictions.  Even the ones we
currently use!

What you are suggesting sounds vaguely reminiscent of the fact that aircraft
cannot instantly bring their nose to bear on target as they approach higher
and higher speeds.  In a vaccum this will not be a problem:  No wings.

Changing VECTORS is a totally different story.  You can't suddenly switch
your heading by 180 degrees without applying your maneuver drive.  ie you
can't be moving 12 hexes per turn in one direction and in the next turn
be heading in the opposite direction at the same speed.  (unless you have
a Maneuver drive with 24G's behind it!)

(I haven't read MEgaTrav combat very well, PLEASE don't tell me you can do
that with their rules...  I still go by the Mayday movement rules)

I don't know about Leviathan or Interceptor or the type of game they are
trying to create.  But this sounds like you are trying to get the feel of
a more World War I & II type of air combat:  Dogfighting.  Well, with the
ranges and weapons involved, I'm afraid it will be more akin to 2 F-14
Tomcats detecting each other *Well* beyond visual range and fireing Pheonix
missiles at each other at something like a hundred nautical miles.

}DAMAGE RESULTS
}Fuel Tank. I'm going to change the "fuel tank shattered" to "fuel leak".
}A certain amount of fuel will be lost per turn. Subsequent hits will make the
}leak more severe.

In a 20 minute turn, a fuel tank that is open to space will evacuate itself.
Even a slow leak.  I have trouble seeing it not empty itself even in the
four minute intervals you suggest.  If there is a leak, that fuel in that
compartment will be lost immediately.  It won't bleed off slowly unless it is
a tiny leak.  A self sealing tank should be well able to handle any such tiny
leaks.

}Hull Inoperative. There is no effect in the standard rules (or my
}variant) for an inoperative hull, when that damage level is reached. My
}suggestions are:
}y restrict craft to 1G
}y prohibit atmosphere entry
}y hull is breached

All these sound good.

}y stress severely limits heading changes

No.  If the structure is sound enough to take 1G acceleration, it can
certainly stand rotational stresses which would be negligible in a four
minute combat turn and zero in a 20 minute one.

}y Agility drops to zero

How so if it can still push 1G?

}y may not fire spinal mount

Hmmm.  I don' know.  At the Inoperative position, the hull has not collapsed
yet, that indicates to me that the spine of the ship is still intact.

}y Craft may not be recovered. They may be launched.

That doesn't make sence.  If there is an open path for ships to leave, then
there exists a path for them to enter.  I think you are confusing slow
relative velocity docking maneuvers with carrier deck operations.  Carrier
deck operations are of necessity held at high speeds to prevent aircraft
from stalling.  In vaccum it is absolutely impossible for spacecraft to stall.
(Shades of Battlestar Galactica  :-P)

}y Rapid Launch Facilities are inoperative.

I dunno, the spine is still intact.  Why would this happen?
Remember:  rapid launch does not mean carrier steam catapults.

}y Fuel leak.

Sounds good.

Scott "2G" Kellogg

On a completely different subject,
Mr. Borich, I'm not going to respond to your attack concerning flames.
I'm sure some of our more irrascable members will do that.  I will however
SUGGEST that in future the way to extinguish flames is with water, not flame.

And if you are interested in solutions to particular problems with Trav and
MegaTrav, I would point you to the archives to find the numerous discussions
on problems percieved and solutions proposed.  If you have any particular
problems in mind, I suggest you address them yourself so that discussion may
ensue.  I think you will find this preferable rather than waiting for others
to bring them up if you find the wait so disturbing.

Sincerely,
Scott S. Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4153
Date: Mon, 18 May 92 11:38:41 PDT
From: gwh@lurnix.COM (George W Herbert)
Subject: Re: Armed Aircraft


	Not that it has any significant bearing on Traveller,
but I thought I ought to properly explain the why behind the FAA's
"take it all off" ruling about ex-soviet warplanes in civilian hands.

	The Federal Bureau of Alcohol and Firearms (BATF) regulates
among other things weapons sales and import/export in the US,
from handguns to nuclear missiles (though nobody's ever asked for that
particular permit... it does exist on paper, tho 8-).
	A normal civilian simply cannot within the US own what's
term a Weapon of Mass Destruction.  You have to be registered as
an Arms Dealer to have one, not an impossible (or even all that
expensive; I spend more many years on Gaming stuff than the permit
would cost for that level...) task, but one that few people do.
	If you're not a dealer, then you can't have a Weapon of 
Mass Destruction.  Aircraft and Tanks (and ships and missiles and...)
all fall under the Weapons of Mass Destruction category.  Any aircraft
that was origionally a combat aircraft is a weapon.
	To "de-weaponify" one, you have to honest to god make it impossible
to put weapons back in without making serious modifications... i.e. take
the weapons and mounts both out, remove weapons pylons from the
outside, etc.  The FAA isn't the one making this rule; it's the BATF.
I don't know about the Ejection Seat, but civilians in the US have
owned them before (a civil-owned F-104 set a new speed-at-height record
at one point, then went out of control.  The pilot ejected and
survived).  I would guess that either these are the ejection seats
that use a cannon shell as the ejection charge (ouch), or that
the FAA will grant specific exemptions later (perhaps) to people who
prove they'll treat and maintain the (dangerous) ejection seats right.

- -george william herbert
gwh@lurnix.com  gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4154
Date: Mon, 18 May 92 16:17:19 PDT
From: gwh@lurnix.COM (George W Herbert)
Subject: MegaTrav Cramped Engine Rooms design rule


	Here's an optional MegaTraveller craft design sequence
modification/optional rule that I'd like some comments on...

CRAMPED ENGINE ROOMS
	The average drive on a MegaTraveller craft only takes up half
of the physical volume it's placed within.  The listed space requirements
include sufficient space for easy access to all parts, and for easy
disassembly and maintenance.
	It is possible to design a craft without this margin of extra
space, but this will result in more difficult maintenance.
	If a drive is only given 90% of its listed space, it will require
10% more maintenance time (or 110% the engineering crew) a normal drive
requires.  In addition, all maintenance tasks done on a time-constrained
basis (such as damage control and emergency repairs) have a DM of -1.
Remember, that with only 90% of the space, there's a 20% reduction in
the actual work space to do maintenance in.
	If a drive has only 80% of its listed space, it requires 20%
more maintenance time and all hasty tasks recieve a DM of -2.
	If a drive has only 70% of its listed space, it requires 40% more
maintenance time (or 140% of the engineering crew) and all maintenance
and repair tasks are one difficulty level harder, no matter how much time
is available.
	If a drive has only 60% of its listed space, it requires 100%
more maintenance time (or 200% the normal crew) and tasks more significant
than minor repairs cannot be done without opening up the hull to get more
access space to components.  All tasks that can be performed are two
difficulty levels harder.
	If an additional cost of 10% of the base
drive cost is paid, access panels can be included in the hull
to allow access at "normal" repair rates to the drive on a vessel with
60% (or more) volume allocated.
Otherwise, the craft will have to be stopped at a starport and
have the hull welded open to get to components, at a cost that is
equal to the percentage of the hull (metal) cost that the drive
in question occupies.

Comments?
- -george william herbert
gwh@lurnix.com  gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu  gwh@soda.berkeley.edu  gwh@gnu.ai.mit.edu


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4155
Date:     Mon, 18 May 92 22:49:12 PDT
From: Orcinus orca <jokim@jarthur.Claremont.EDU>
Subject:  Re: Proposed alternate starship combat

  > }  Hull. To find out when the armor factor is reduced, divide the 
  > }inoperative value by the armor factor.
  > 
  > I kind of like the idea that a weapon still causes damage even 
  > though it may not penetrate the hull.  I heartily applaud this idea.
  > Assigning chassis damage is a good idea.  Also burning it's armor 
  > off sounds plausible. 

This got me thinking.  Has anybody calculated what sort of impetus a
close-range nuke would apply to a well-armored ship?  All that armor
isn't going to do an awful lot of good if the ship ends up thrown with
20 G's of acceleration for a not-so-small duration of time.  Kinda like
subs being tossed around by depth charges - eventually you'll compromise
structural integrity of the ship (and the crew's bodies).

What was that conversion factor between joules and Megatons of TNT...
- --
John H. Kim
jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu
uunet!jarthur!jokim

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4156
Date:     Mon, 18 May 92 22:38:54 PDT
From: Orcinus orca <jokim@jarthur.Claremont.EDU>
Subject:  Re: Cramped engine rooms

  > 	If a drive has only 60% of its listed space, it requires 100% more
  > maintenance time (or 200% the normal crew) and tasks more
  > significant than minor repairs cannot be done without opening up
  > the hull to get more access space to components.  All tasks that
  > can be performed are two difficulty levels harder.
  > Comments?
  > - -george william herbert
 
This is a good idea, but...
 
You're reducing the amount of working space to 20% of the normal.
Then you're saying you can partially counterbalance the difficulty
of getting in that smaller space to repair things by squeezing
MORE people into there?
 
I think the bit about adding additional crew needs to be reworked
to reflect diminishing returns - at some point, adding an extra crew
member is going to cost you because of cramped space.  I think that
point comes well before you reach squeezing your normal crew into
10% of the space they're used to (twice the normal crew in 20% of
normal workspace).
 
Say, if you reduce the engine workspace, you still need the same
size crew, but fewer of them can work at once, thus increasing repair
time and difficulty.  Or some variation thereof.
- --
John H. Kim
jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu
uunet!jarthur!jokim

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4157
Date: Tue, 19 May 92 10:40 GMT
From: "J.A.F.O." <BSU646@VAXC.BANGOR.AC.UK>
Subject: Nuclear dampers and alien romance

1)
I recently shelled out on a copy of Hard Times (wot no virus?) and was intrigued
 by part of one of the scenarios in which the evil (boo hiss) pirate is tricked
into stealing this ship with a nuclear damper in the cargo hold,  when said 
baddie stores his nukes in there this device renders them PERMENANTLY inoperable
............. comments any one?
If this is the case in the Trav' universe then surely you might be able to use 
one to tidy up radioactive messes?

NB   PLEASE,  no 400 megabyte physicist raves about all this! PLEASE....
I have enough trouble staying awake long enough over the gravitics debate :)

2)
 A long while back I posted some queries about how many of you had had cross
species romance/physical liasons going on in your games and how you reckoned
soceity might view it.   I got a deafening silence..... anyone new out there
got sommat to contribute.

3)   Additional point
  Has anyone thought how dumb imperial archaeologists must be to not have
realised WHO the ancients were?


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4158
Date: Tue, 19 May 92 09:53 -0300
From: "C. Roald" <HOBBIT@AC.DAL.CA>
Subject: Re: cramped engine rooms

>	If a drive has only 70% of its listed space, it requires 40% more
>maintenance time (or 140% of the engineering crew) and all maintenance

Isn't the idea of cramming 140% of the personnel into 40% of the space 
just a little improbable?  Too many cooks and all that?

    c.r.

- --
And I thought classical music was boring!	-- Calvin

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4159
Date: Tue, 19 May 92 09:29:18 CST
From: Steve_Higginbotham@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US (Steve Higginbotham)
Subject: engine rooms and starship combat...

George Herbert:
 
>    Here's an optional MegaTraveller craft design sequence
>modification/optional rule that I'd like some comments on...
>
>CRAMPED ENGINE ROOMS
 
<explanation for above>
 
Only one thing I take exception to here:  Less space shouldn't require
more engineering crew, since they would only get in each other's way
in the cramped space.  I saw enough of that on the submarine to last a
lifetime.  Try requiring more maintenance groundside (for every day in
space, the engineering crew has to work xx% of a day after landing to
get ready for the next flight).
 
 
Scott Kellogg (2G)
 
>}with armor-120 can now be damaged by weapons smaller than factor-T.
>
>Hmm, according to the design tables in the Referee's Guide, this
>should NOT be a problem until Tech Level 24.  (Max armor is TL *5) 
>So the max armor available in the Imperium (That *I* wanna deal with)
>is Armor=75G at TL 15).
 
Max ADD-ON armour is 75.  Max armour is 115.  120 still out to lunch
below TL16.
 
 
>I kind of like the idea that a weapon still causes damage even though
>it may not penetrate the hull.  I heartily appaud this idea. 
>Assigning chassis damage is a good idea.  Also burning it's armor off
>sounds plausible.
 
I agree.  I'm skeptical about burning off armour unless the weapons
are really horrendous (large nukes, spinal mounts, MANY batteries of
lesser stuff).
{ 

>}7. Optional Sensor Rules
>}  Make all sensor tasks one level less difficult if the target is in
>}an adjacent hex.  
>}Make active sensor tasks one level more difficult:
>}o if the target is within a gas giant,
>}o when attempted through a hex where a nuclear missile has exploded.
>}o if target uses jamming.
>}Neutrino detection:
>}o If target's EMLevel is faint, give a -1 DM to neutrino scans.
>}o If target's EMLevel is strong, give a +1 DM to neutrino scans.
>
>Don't forget background neutrinos.  (The sun... high population
>planets where everybody owns a fusion powered air/raft... etc.)
 
There is NO "neutrino scan" in this game.  Neutrino detectors are
integrated into PEMS scan tasks.  Neutrino detectors do do pinpoint 
tasks, but EMLevel has little, if anything, to do with neutrino 
emissions, and so should have little to do with associated tasks.  
In any case, the subject is already dealt with in the rules:  faint
EMlevel means you need an exceptional success, strong EMlevel needs 
anything better than exceptional failure.
 
 
>}Densitometer detection:
>}o If target is small, give a -1 DM to densitometer scans.
>}o If target is large, give a +1 DM to densitometer scans.
>}o Increase detection task difficulty by one level if detection is
>}attempted through a planet or moon with size 5+ or through a
>}planetoid belt.
 
The first two cases are already dealt with in the rules: small targets
require exceptional success to detect with PasObjScan/Pin, large
objects are detected with anything better than exceptional failure.
The third case assumes you can detect an object through a planet
8000Km thick with a sensor that has a max penetration of 1Km. 
Planetoid belts are mostly (99.9999999999999%) empty space - who cares
whether you hide in one?
 
 
>All the above sound like good ideas.  However the range and detection
>of sensors needs work.  As far as I can see, it is just about
>impossible to detect a ship at the rated range of the sensors.  Now I
>can understand that a sensor could detect other ships out to far
>orbit range, but even with a model 9 computer and a Far orbit range
>sensor, you just can't detect them that far.  So what does a 'Far
>Orbit' sensor detect?  What does an 'Interstellar' sensor detect?  If
>the answer is nothing, why then are they called that?
 
This I agree with wholeheartedly!
 
 
>}Time and distance. I plan to scale down the time and distance scale
>}in starship combat from 20 minutes/25000km to 4 minutes/5000km. For
>}longer combat turns, more damage must be given for each hit.
 
Not bright idea, grasshopper.  Original assumption behind scale was
that hex size be distance traveled after time scale acceleration at
one G.  This has changed in MT, until distance scale has little, if
anything, to do with something so trivial as acceleration and
velocity. (proper scale should be 20min/15,000Km (or even 7500Km for
you high realism types (like me)).  Changing to a four minute time
scale requires that the distance scale be reduced to 600Km (or 1000Km
to stay consistant with MT).
 
 
>Bad Idea.  In my experience, opposing ships open fire as soon as they
>are within range.  (Far orbit)  With 4 minute turns and 5000 km hexes
>how big a board are you gonna have to plot the movement on?  Far
>orbit range would leave you with 100 hexes to worry about.  It gets
>rediculous!  If each hex is a centimeter, your map needs to be a
>meter across.  In my experince, combat lasts several turns say 10? 
>In forty minutes, ships will not close significantly from Far Orbit
>ranges.  By the time they got within close range (to use fusion guns
>and where meson gun performance goes up) They will be lifeless
>drifting rocks burned to bits by laser batteries and missiles.
 
Too true.  So don't use meson guns and fusion guns.  MT allows a
missile launcher to chunk out 1 shot per minute (in personal combat),
but only 1 shot per twenty minutes in ship combat.  Bringing those two
numbers in closer agreement won't bother me very much, even if it DOES
invalidate half the ship designs out there.
 
 
>}  Movement: I am inclined to make some changes in the movement
>}rules.
>}  First, I want to make heading changes somewhat more difficult. As
>}in Interceptor or Leviathan, it costs thrust points to change
>}heading. What I want to do is require a certain number of hexes
>}travelled at a given velocity before allowing a one hex side course
>}change. How many hexes to travel may depend on both maneuver gee
>}and/or agility. Using this rule would make it appropriate to limit
>}the arc of the spinal mount to forward.
 
NO!!!  If you want to fix movement rules, get back to Mayday rules! 
They are the only set of movement rules that were ever orth the
trouble of writing down (Unless you count "Battlefleet:Mars", which
did the same sort of thing in three dimensions).
 
 
>Hold it right there!  Are you telling me that a ship with (at the
>very least) 1 G thrust to mass ratio CAN'T bring it's nose to bear on
>target EVEN in the FOUR MINUTE time intervals you suggest?  No WAY! 
>If a ship can not turn faster than that, then agility would have no
>hope of bringing any correction help in avoiding fire.
 
Even if a ship CAN turn faster, agility won't help (in a realistic
world picture - you want agility to help, let ships pull 60Gs)
 
 
>And given the fact that they are (and should remain) 20 minute turn
>intervals, I have some trouble seeing any firing arc restrictions. 
>Even the ones we currently use!
 
I agree here, even for four minute turns.
 
 
>...  In a vaccum this will not be a problem:  No wings.
 
No. No AIR.
 
 
>}DAMAGE RESULTS
>}Fuel Tank. I'm going to change the "fuel tank shattered" to "fuel
>}leak".  A certain amount of fuel will be lost per turn. Subsequent
>}hits will make the leak more severe.
 
>In a 20 minute turn, a fuel tank that is open to space will evacuate
>itself.  Even a slow leak.  I have trouble seeing it not empty itself
>even in the four minute intervals you suggest.  If there is a leak,
>that fuel in that compartment will be lost immediately.  It won't
>bleed off slowly unless it is a tiny leak.  A self sealing tank
>should be well able to handle any such tiny leaks.
 
I assume that fuel tanks are self-sealing (we do it now, why can't
they?), and that the fuel tanks are NOT "ONE BIG VOID" in the hull. 
Rather more like a myriad of little, self-contained tanks, linked by
piping with cutout valves that are closed in the event of leakage. 
Net result: fuel leaks are ridiculous, fuel tanks being shattered
slightly less so.  But only slightly.
 
 
>}y stress severely limits heading changes
>
>No.  If the structure is sound enough to take 1G acceleration, it can
>certainly stand rotational stresses which would be negligible in a
>four minute combat turn and zero in a 20 minute one.
 
Agreed.
 
 
>}y Agility drops to zero
>
>How so if it can still push 1G?
 
Likewise.
 
 
>}y may not fire spinal mount
>
>Hmmm.  I don' know.  At the Inoperative position, the hull has not
>collapsed yet, that indicates to me that the spine of the ship is
>still intact.
 
Why not?  If the spinal mount is intact, it can shoot.  If the hull
can pull one G, then the recoil (if any) of the spinal mount is
irrelevant (unless the ship can pull more than one G backwards using
the spinal mount as a drive)
 
>}y Craft may not be recovered. They may be launched.
>
>That doesn't make sence.  If there is an open path for ships to
>leave, then there exists a path for them to enter.  I think you are
>confusing slow relative velocity docking maneuvers with carrier deck
>operations.  Carrier deck operations are of necessity held at high
>speeds to prevent aircraft from stalling.  In vaccum it is absolutely
>impossible for spacecraft to stall. (Shades of Battlestar Galactica 
>:-P)
 
If the ship is config-7 hull, the whole question should be moot. 
Snuggle up to any empty spot on the hull.
 
 
>}y Rapid Launch Facilities are inoperative.
>
>I dunno, the spine is still intact.  Why would this happen?
>Remember:  rapid launch does not mean carrier steam catapults.
 
Again, unless the launch facility can provide greater than one G
thrust when operated as a drive, who cares?
 
>}y Fuel leak.
>
>Sounds good.
 
See earlier comments about fuel leaks...
 
Later, later...

- -- Via DLG Pro v0.991

Steve_Higginbotham@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US

I have learned to use the word "impossible" with the greatest caution.
                                    --W. von Braun

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4160
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Addendum to Steve's reply
Date: Tue, 19 May 92 17:26:41 MET DST

Steve Higginbotham's reply to Loren Wiseman prompts me to add my heaviest
objection to the proposed 3rd Edition of Traveller. I've mentioned it
before, but I feel so strongly about it, that I'd really, really like to
be sure that the folks at GDW has at least heard my argument. So Bryan,
would you indulge me and please forward this to Loren Wiseman too?

>      BTW, I do NOT disapprove of your third edition of Traveller.  And I
> don't approve of it because of your second edition, but in spite of it.
> But let's see some good work, with an editor who EDITs, rather than
> spell-checks with his word-processor.  And a little reality checking
> wouldn't hurt, either.

I don't disapprove of a revision of MegaTraveller either. In fact, if
you can repair some of MegaTraveller's defects so much the better. But
I strongly disapprove of your plans to invalidate most of the background
information that has been slowly building up over the last 15 years. As
I understand it, you even consider that wealth of information detrimental
in some way. Not I. One of the great problems with a startravelling role-
playing campaign is the sheer amount of information that the PCs should
have at their fingertips, but that the Referee simply haven't the time
to provide. Pick up a tourist guide to some country and look through it.
This is the kind of information that a PC should be able to get out of
any decent library data program, not just for every planet around him,
but for each seperate region of every planet around him. That's totally
impossible to provide, of course, but at least the information level for
a few of the regions of the Imperium were beginning to approach something
near the absolute bare minimum. And now you want to move the game back-
ground forward through 80 years of social upheaval, thereby ensuring that
only the geographical details will remain valid  -  and not those either
come to think about it... planetary bombardments must surely rearrange
the face of the planets too...

If you persist in your plans I advise you to publish the new rules and
the new background seperately. You will thereby ensure at least one
sale of the rulebook. I'd be eager to buy improved rules, but I'm not
going to invest in a new background.

Let me also implore you to keep up support of the current timeline. I
don't intend to dump my current campaign and start up a new one 80 years
later with new PCs and NPCs. I've spend too much time building up the
ones I've got now, thank you.


>      Last comments:  If you need someone to give something a fine-tooth
> "internal logic check", I'm always here.

I too would be pleased to assist you in this manner.



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "And now to conclude and to finish my song.
         Let us hope that these hard times, they will not last long.
         I hope soon to have occasion to alter my song;
         and sing: All the good times of the Empire.
              In the Empire are jolly good times."

------------------------------

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Date: Wed May 20 21:00:35 PDT 1992
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #345: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
4161  19-May-92 Jo Jaquinta       The Myth of Game Balance << [Jo wakes up agai
4162  19-May-92 PHB100@PSUVM.PSU. Re: Proposed Alternate Starship Combat in Tra
4163  19-May-92 Robert S. Dean    Re: (4150) What's the story on NeoTraveller? 
4164  19-May-92 Robert S. Dean    Re: (4151) Re: idiots... << In your letter da
4165  19-May-92 Robert S. Dean    Re: (4152) Re: Proposed Alternate Starship Co
4166  19-May-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU Re: RE: (4152) Re: Proposed Alternate Starshi
4167  19-May-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU News on GDW and an offer to them. << I just g
4168  20-May-92                   Hmmm.... << If Gygax's new game is so great, 
4169  20-May-92                   Vargr and wolves << bryan borich <70541.1410@
4170  20-May-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU Re: Cramped engine spaces << Cramped engine s
4171  20-May-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU Re: Nukes and Alien Romances << JAFO askes ab
4172  20-May-92 "Doc Kinne: User  The Hard Times Virus << Morning Folks: I've b
4173  20-May-92 Hans Rancke-Madse Re: Nuclear dampers << "J.A.F.O." writes: > >
4174  20-May-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU Stories posted on the TML << Greetings again,
4175  20-May-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU Fuel Leaks and Add-On Armor << Hi folks! Hydr
4176  20-May-92 PHB100@PSUVM.PSU. RE: Jump drive in Megatraveller << Here is a 
4177  20-May-92 gwh@lurnix.COM    Re: Cramped Engine Spaces << Despite a genera
4178  20-May-92 Steve_Higginbotha fuel and armour << Scott 2G Kellogg: >Hydroge
4179  20-May-92 Robert S. Dean    Re: (4158) Re: cramped engine rooms << "C. Ro
4180  20-May-92 Robert S. Dean    Re: (4157) Nuclear dampers and alien romance 
4181  20-May-92 Robert S. Dean    Re: (4159) engine rooms and starship combat..

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4161
From: Jo Jaquinta <jaymin@maths.tcd.ie>
Subject: The Myth of Game Balance
Date: Tue, 19 May 92 16:29:32 BST

[Jo wakes up again]

	It seems like I only get to read the TML every 2 months. I uploaded
the issues and, lo and behold, the first was from March! Anyway...

	It looks like I am pretty much the only person who has spoken that
can say they almost unreservedly agree with Metlay (4109). It did, however,
touch on one particular well rehersed argument of mine...

	Proposal:		GAME BALANCE IS A MYTH

	Substantiantion:	Any system of rules has a balance point

	Discursion:
		I see the term "game balance" being bandied about a
lot. Usually w.r.t. "I don't allow xxx to maintain the game balance."
People change the rules to change the course of the game and make it
adhere to the setting in a way the referee desires more. To me, this is
backwards.
	If you look at a game setting as a point in space. The rules
govern how this point moves (i.e. by player action within the rules)
and the course it traces out can be described as the campaign. I maintain
that given any set of rules there are regions within that space that are
stable. I.e. under the normal course of application of game rules the
campaign will not greatly deviate from that region. These are balance
points.
	The perceived "imbalance" that is observed when people bring up the
myth of game balance is when the referee, out of ignorance or misunderstanding
of the game rules, sets their campaign at a point in the space that is
not within a balance point. When set there the normal course of gaming
action (within the rules) will draw that point, away from the original
setting, toward a region of balance. Thus, over time (sometimes a very
short amount of time) the campaign will move away from the original
region chosen by the referee.
	A referee sees this as undesirable, and unwilling to admit
to ignorance or just unable to perceive it, changes the rules in the
name of game balance. Usually the change in the rule system is not too
drastic which means the new regions of balance are "near" the old ones.
One might suppose that they are nearer the current point of game play.
However, given the campaign is currently accelerating in one direction
it is unlikely to be suddenly in a stable region, despite the fact that
this is the desire of the referee. It will, most likely, start careening
in a different direction under the new rules.
	Thus, as time goes on, the referee continues to change rules and
the campaign zooms from here to there chasing a moving target that it is
unlikely ever to reach.
	The mistake is in the placement of the game. One should consider
rules carefully and try to understand their full implications. Consulting
people who have played for some time is probably a good idea. I wouldn't
think one can ever fully understand a gaming system and one's target will
almost always be wrong. However you are better off watching the flow of
your campaign to see where it is going. As it deviates from its starting
position its further course will become clearer as more of the rule
implications filter through.
	If you change the rules you will never understand where the
campaign is going. I maintain that you should, instead, accept that there
will be some dynamicism in your campaign. Watch where it goes and be
prepared to flow with it. If you don't change the rules it won't change
direction and you have a better chance of understanding it fully.

	If you are familiar with mathematical modeling the above will
probably make ready sense to you (the more so if you grok topolocical
spaces :-). On the other hand it may make no sense whatsoever. Think
about it for a minute then either apply it or toss it...


	Different subject: Although quiet I've not been sitting on my hands.
SYSGEN level 5 is nearly ready to hit the streets. It uses the same integrated
environment as LIBRARY which means, unfortunately, it only works on PCs.
In addition to nearly full WBH detail on each of 100 trillion planets
it now supports editing of all details at the expense of about 24K of disk
space per system. Right down to the local customs!
	What I want to finish is the adding and subtracting of entire
planets (i.e. you can only modify existing ones now) and graphical printing
of surfaces (I plan to support FX, HPLJET and PostScript printers). As I
don't have a PostScript printer I would appreciate any volunteer to test
that particular bit...
	The hard disk with the manual on it crashed so that will be delayed
(again!) bt there is now an on-line help feature. The .EXE has hit 250K! :-)
	Does GDW really read the TML now? The gods really are watching!
If the gods really are listening perhaps they might be willing to humour
a supplicant and have a look at LIBRARY or SYSGEN. It was designed to be
everything they promised us with the WBH software. I'm quite sure they
get tons of half-arsed programmers sending them disks upon disks of planetary
generators but I think these are a fair cut above the rest and would beg
their indulgence just this once :-).

			Jo Grant
			jaymin@maths.tcd.ie

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4162
From: PHB100@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Date:    Tue, 19 May 92 12:19 EDT
Subject: Re:  Proposed Alternate Starship Combat in Traveller

>}  Movement: I am inclined to make some changes in the movement rules.
>}  First, I want to make heading changes somewhat more difficult. As in
>}Interceptor or Leviathan, it costs thrust points to change heading. What I
>}want to do is require a certain number of hexes travelled at a given velocity
>}before allowing a one hex side course change. How many hexes to travel may

I think you are confused...my understanding is that heading is the
direction you are pointing, course ( = vector, i guess) is the direction
you are moving.

>}depend on both maneuver gee and/or agility. Using this rule would make it
>}appropriate to limit the arc of the spinal mount to forward.
>
 .....
>
>What you are suggesting sounds vaguely reminiscent of the fact that aircraft
>cannot instantly bring their nose to bear on target as they approach higher
>and higher speeds.  In a vaccum this will not be a problem:  No wings.

I'll answer this with the proviso that I may be corrected by any REAL aero-
dynamicists(SP?) out there....

Airplanes run into this problem because they must change COURSE to target an
enemy ship.  Since they only have a limited ability to change heading w/o
changing course, in atmosphere they are essentially the same thing.  Take any
airplane, mount small maneuvering jets in strategic places (nose, tail, wing
tips...) and put it in space and you separate the two.  You can now do things
that any self-respecting plane in atmosphere can't (move in direction A while
pointing in direction B)

You change heading with the manuevering jets, and course with the main engine
(if heading <> course).  The problem in atmosphere is that high-G turns put
the plane at the outer rim of a circle.  Since the linear speed is constant,
a smaller circle places a higher G-force on the plane/pilot.  Too much stress
on either the plane's structure or the pilot's and things start to fall apart.

Take a spaceship, change it's COURSE as fast as you change the plane's and
you will place an equivalent stress on it's structure.  The limiting factor
becomes how much stress the ship's/occupant's structure can take.  That's what
inertial dampers were invented for.

Question:  putting inertial dampers on an airplane should allow you to make
higher-G turns.  The limiting factor here becomes max linear speed (remember
frictional heating) + max rotational speed (which depends on elevator
deflection and moment arms and other things I don't want to think about).
True or not?

>
>Changing VECTORS is a totally different story.  You can't suddenly switch
>your heading by 180 degrees without applying your maneuver drive.  ie you
Again, HEADING <> COURSE.

>}DAMAGE RESULTS
>}Fuel Tank. I'm going to change the "fuel tank shattered" to "fuel leak".
>}A certain amount of fuel will be lost per turn. Subsequent hits will make the
>}leak more severe.
>
>In a 20 minute turn, a fuel tank that is open to space will evacuate itself.
>Even a slow leak.  I have trouble seeing it not empty itself even in the

How big is the leak?  How much fuel is left in the tank?  These things will
all affect how fast the fuel will be lost.  Unless the leak approaches a
significant fraction of the tank size or there isn't much fuel left in the
tank, it won't be lost immediately.

>
>Scott "2G" Kellogg
>
I await all flames in a state of Zen (or was that Pennsylvania?)

Paul "Unka" Baughman
student glider pilot

- ----------
Captain Sir Michael Talmoth,  UPP:  BA5A8B

"You see me now a veteran,
     Of a thousand psychic wars,
         I've been living on the edge so long,
             Where the winds of Limbo roar.
- -- BOC


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4163
Date:     Tue, 19 May 92 14:12:49 EDT
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Re:  (4150) What's the story on NeoTraveller?

Wally_Hartshorn@quest.athenanet.COM (Wally Hartshorn) writes:
> Subject: (4150) What's the story on NeoTraveller?
> 
> I've been out of touch with the Traveller net community for a few months. 
> Can someone tell me what we finally learned from GDW about NeoTraveller (or
> whatever they're going to call it)?

No news is good news?  GDW opened the discussion of the revision again
on GEnie about a month ago, and there has been little activity.  I guess
that everything that people wanted to say was pretty much said last year
when the issue was first raised.  About the only things that are "certain"
are that it will be called "Traveller: The New Era" (TNE), and that the
basic mechanics will be Twilight:2000 with a d20 instead of a d10.  (So
much for that intersystem compatibility they were hoping for?).  The Star
Viking project (originally a miniatures game for planetary raids based on
Command Decision) will not be issued for Gencon as projected, and it won't
be a miniatures game when it does come out.  (Board game?)

Meanwhile, the folio adventure Assignment: Vigilante has been released with
absolutely no fanfare, for the bargain price of $4.50.

I can't say much else, since there isn't much to say.  I've chided, castigated,
and cajoled GDW about this in private, in public and in person.  I've 
volunteered to edit, to proofread, to playtest and gotten no real response.
I've volunteered the list.  What else can I do?

Rob Dean


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4164
Date:     Tue, 19 May 92 14:24:30 EDT
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Re:  (4151) Re: idiots...

In your letter dated Mon, 18 May 92 10:11:11 CST, you wrote:
>
> WHY did you dump 2300AD and 1889???  What was done was among your best
> work since the original Traveller, but now it's gone, never to return...
>  
>                               ---Steve Higginbotham
> 
> PS.  And I also call the people at DGP idiots on a regular basis.  More
> often than I call GDW people idiots, in fact...

Just as well--they are the ones responsible for most of the more peculiar
additions and insertions in MT.  However, since they dropped the Traveller
business to pursue their own game, they have been little seen...when was
AI supposed to be out?  Several months ago?  Rumor I heard had it that
40% of the final draft disappeared in a hard disk crash and is being
reconstructed...(The other 60% went too, but was recoverable).

Rob

Anyone for a nice game of Lace and Steel?


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4165
Date:     Tue, 19 May 92 14:34:48 EDT
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Re:  (4152) Re: Proposed Alternate Starship Combat in Traveller

2G Scott Kellogg writes:

> }From: bryan borich <70541.1410@CompuServe.COM>
> }Subject: (4095) Alternate Starship Combat System
> 
> Hmm, according to the design tables in the Referee's Guide, this should NOT
> be a problem until Tech Level 24.  (Max armor is TL *5)  So the max armor
> available in the Imperium (That *I* wanna deal with) is Armor=75G at TL 15).
> But then again, Shattered Ships of the Squabbling Imperium is chock full of
> the things and other assorted errors.

As far as I am concerned, this intention of this rule has always been an
open question.  For starships, should that be 40 + 5*TL?  If not, then a
'legal' TL7 spacecraft is impossible.  (Tell the Apollo crew to give it up
boys--we can't build the command module thick enough!)

> }  First, we will compute the damage points each type of weapons does.
> }  Turret mounted weapons do 10*UCP in damage. A bay weapon does 20*UCP in
> }damage. Spinal mounts do 100*UCP in damage.
> }  Nuclear and anti-matter do four times the precalculated damage. Example:
> }a UCP-3 turret firing nuclear missiles does 120 points of damage ((3*10)*4).
> 
> I like it.  A way we can actually USE those damage point numbers we've been
> patiently calculating and recording and never using.  Sounds like a good
> idea.

I don't.  At least not yet.  Look at it like this.  For smaller weapons
operating over a _short_ turn, a laser does MW damage if pulse, or 2*MW
damage if beam.  A ship sized beam laser should do 500 points of damage in
combat--more if the turn length is considered.  If it doesn't, then I'll
design my ships with the smaller weapons, nyet?  The principle is good, but
the math is bad.  This reminds me--have we _ever_ come to any agreement on
whether lasers actually shoot at their targets at far orbit range or whether
they just slash around hoping for a random hit?  If the latter, then a low
damage might be justifiable (but it should increase as range decreases, not
from differing beam strength but from increasing time on the target).  If  
the former, then the damage should be larger (or the damage from vehicle
mounted weapons should be smaller.)


> And if you are interested in solutions to particular problems with Trav and
> MegaTrav, I would point you to the archives to find the numerous discussions
> on problems percieved and solutions proposed.  If you have any particular
> problems in mind, I suggest you address them yourself so that discussion may
> ensue.  I think you will find this preferable rather than waiting for others
> to bring them up if you find the wait so disturbing.

Agree with Scott here.  A lot of stuff has been chewed over (and over and over)
and if a topic interests you, might as well ask.

Rob Dean



------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4166
Date: Tue, 19 May 1992 15:46 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: Re: RE: (4152) Re: Proposed Alternate Starship Combat in Traveller

I writes:
> Hmm, according to the design tables in the Referee's Guide, this should NOT
> be a problem until Tech Level 24.  (Max armor is TL *5)

Rob sez:
}As far as I am concerned, this intention of this rule has always been an
}open question.  For starships, should that be 40 + 5*TL?  If not, then a
}'legal' TL7 spacecraft is impossible.  (Tell the Apollo crew to give it up
}boys--we can't build the command module thick enough!)

True, and to tell you the truth, I don't see the real reason for this rule,
I would think you could always slap on thicker armor.  But the rule is on the
books, and it does solve the problem.  However, I would point out that the
Apollo capsule was not as radiation proof or as well armored as I am lead to
believe in the case of traveller starships.

>}  First, we will compute the damage points each type of weapons does...
> I like it.

}I don't.  At least not yet.  Look at it like this.  For smaller weapons
}operating over a _short_ turn, a laser does MW damage if pulse, or 2*MW
}damage if beam.  A ship sized beam laser should do 500 points of damage in
}combat--more if the turn length is considered.  If it doesn't, then I'll
}design my ships with the smaller weapons, nyet?  The principle is good, but
}the math is bad.

Your right.  I hadn't considered that.  But I still like the idea of using
the damage point values.  What we need is to adopt a more mass oriented
system than the volume oriented system.  (ie 1 damage point per 15 tons
rather than per 15 kiloliters or something like that)

}This reminds me--have we _ever_ come to any agreement on
}whether lasers actually shoot at their targets at far orbit range or whether
}they just slash around hoping for a random hit?  If the latter, then a low
}damage might be justifiable (but it should increase as range decreases, not
}from differing beam strength but from increasing time on the target).  If  
}the former, then the damage should be larger (or the damage from vehicle
}mounted weapons should be smaller.)

A good question.  *I* would assume the slashing movements for the lasers.
It seems to make sence within the confines of the game and as to what is
actually going on.  This would account for the increased probability of
hitting with lasers at closer ranges.

2G Scott Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4167
Date: Tue, 19 May 1992 16:04 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: News on GDW and an offer to them.

I just got off the phone with GDW.

Apparantly there's been some mix up with challenge 60.  A lot of people
did not recieve their copies.  (I got 59 and 61 but no 60)

It sounds as though there are 2 more products to be released before Trav NE.
comes out.

An Astrogators guide to Diaspora, and a Survival guide.
the Survival guide is supposed to be a transition guide from MegaTrav to
Trav NE.  Both of these are supposed to be small booklets like Assignment
Vigilante.  ($5?)

The Astrogators guide is (supposed to be) due in September?

The Survival Guide is supposed to be due in October?
	(Don't quote me I wasn't taking notes)

Traveller The New Era Is supposed to be out in November.

Now, since Loren Wiseman seems to be listening in on us, I would like to
suggest to him that if he is interested in our input to stuff on this he
may find the Archives of the TML helpful.  Otherwise, If you want
me to, I can try and reiterate some of the suggestions that I have made
before.

Then again, I believe a lot of the stuff I've said got sent over to GEnie
last fall.  So you may have already heard the stuff I got to say.

So, Whaddya say GDW?

Sincerely,
Scott S. Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4168
Date: Wed, 20 May 92 02:26:26 -0700
From: R. Dired <rrn@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Hmmm....

If Gygax's new game is so great, why not release TNG as a DD supplement?
That way, the entire effort could be on background/etc., rather than on more
rules to wonder at.

Anyone ever consider what kind of effort it would take to make traveller 3D?
I know that 2D is so damn much simpler, but space isn't supposed to be simple.
What's the excitement of it's just a bunch of small islands on a real big 
sea? 
On the same topic, one thing that always bothered me was that population was
random, no matter how bad the conditions on the planet. 99 billion on a 
size A with atmosphere F is kind of hard to believe (much less that many on
size 1, no water, no air)! Why not have modifiers to the population roll based
on the other rolls? Say, something like this:

UCP	Size	Atmos	Water
- ------------------------------
0	-2	-3	-2
1	-1	-2	-1
2	-1	-2	-1
3	 0	-1	 0
4	 0	-1	 0
5	 0	 0	 0
6	 0	+1	 0
7	 0	-1	 0
8	 0	 0	 0
9	 0	-1	-1
A	+1	-2	-2
B+		-3

This way, you wouldn't have all those poor planets with billions next to 
the perfect one that the GM can name every person on.
Also, TL 9-B should reduce the effects of tainted atmosphere to tolerable
(say, carginogenic, or perhaps a simple lung-wash is needed every month),
C-D should make it nothing but a faint odor, and E+ should eliminate tainting
altogether. Remove the requirement for atmospheric type (make it 0-9) for
industrial worlds.

Anyone want to reinterpret the TLs to make it more sane? I don't mean changing
any number, but making Earth 1992, say, 4, and making higher numbers just
more specific high-technology. Ship design is going to be re-done anyway,
and all the high-tech weapons are silly to begin with.

One last thing. Why wouldn't the laser be the premiere weapon in `Hard Times',
that pinnacle of hard science? You don't need to re-learn how to make
smokeless powder, no bullets to make or store or run out of, and no recoil.
Maybe an Ancient could explain that 200+ shots really aren't necessay, and
build a weapon with a Pen of ~15, 40 shots, and a 1-2 kg internal battery.
I know Traveller has this enormous fear of power (look at fission plants, etc.)
but this just seems (to me) just too logical. Get a rechargeable clip, and
when you run out of ammo, just plug 'er in the fusion plant. No other
energy-transfer technology needed (and lasers are what? TL 8? 7?!?).

	-H

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4169
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Vargr and wolves
Date: Wed, 20 May 92 15:22:54 BST

bryan borich <70541.1410@CompuServe.COM> writes:
> 
> Cynthia,
>      For what it's worth part of the personailty of the Vargr was
> taken from Wolf behaviour by the writers.

Which reminds me of my favourite insult to a Vargr - "Lead-tail".

- -- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4170
Date: Wed, 20 May 1992 09:49 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: Re: Cramped engine spaces

Cramped engine spaces.

This is perhaps a good idea in principle, George, but I think your math is
off.  Drives certianly do not take up their entire listed volume, but 50% is
a bit much to shave off.  I think working space is going to be a more
complicated function than just some percentage number.

Consider:  A huge battleship with a HUGE powerplant.  Does that mean that
50% of that huge volume is work space?

In it's simplest execution, imagine:  A spherical fusion plant with a series
of 3 meter cat walks running around it.  (In my opinion, that is about as
large an area as you could concievably use for repair work) Now for small
engines that would be more than 50% but with HUGE engines that would be much
less.  (I don't have my calculator here, but you can see how the numbers
would add up anyway)

Scott 2G Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4171
Date: Wed, 20 May 1992 09:56 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: Re: Nukes and Alien Romances

JAFO askes about Nuclear Dampers.

Yup, supposedly, a Damper can either stabalize or destableize radioactive
nucleii.  So you could use one to clean up after a nuclear blast.

As for the point about Alien Romances...
I guess you haven't been reading the 4.5th Frontier War series...

(Exchange bettween Miakr [male human] and Gresha [female vargr]  Miakr, tripped
out on painkillers.)

Miakr:  Hi Gresha, what big teeth you got...

Gresha:  All the better to... oh nevermind.   |->


Scott

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4172
Date: Wed, 20 May 1992 12:09 EDT
From: "Doc Kinne: User Services Associate" <KINNERC%snymorva.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: The Hard Times Virus

Morning Folks:

        I've been playing Traveller for about 10 years now, off and on
(mainly off since I can't find many players).  I tended to use the
original rules until about 4 months ago when I got Mega-Traveller and
started subscribing to this list.  Here, on these pages (pages??)
I learned about the Hard Times Suppliment and the upcomming TNE.
        One of the subjects that has been continually mentioned in
passing is that they were thinking of introducing a computer virus
as an explanation for the fall of the Imperium.  They, apparently,
decided not to do this to the vast relief of nearly everyone on this
list.
        I'm just bloody curious.  What were they proposing for this
virus?  How was it supposed to work?  Why was the list so convinced
that the concept wouldn't work.
        If this subject has been bashed to death in the past and
no one in their right mind (which leaves me out, of course) cares to
bring it up again, I would LOVE email for the explanation.  I'm just
bloody curious.
        Thanks in advance, folks!
- --
AT&T: (315)655-4252 (H)              Ensign Richard C. F. "Doc" Kinne, N2IKR
Compuserve: 70721,636                Communications Section, U.S.S. Avenger
InterNet: kinnerc@snymorva.BITNET    85.5 Albany Street
PBBS: N2IKR@N2KQN.#WNY.NY.USA.NA     Cazenovia, NY 13035-1216
Quote: "With the first link, a chain is forged.  The first speach
        censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom
        denied, chains us all irrevocably."
                                -Capt. Jean-Luc Picard quoting former
                                 Federation Judge Aaron Satie.
                                "The Drumhead"
                                Star Trek: The Next Generation

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4173
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Nuclear dampers
Date: Wed, 20 May 92 18:39:54 MET DST

"J.A.F.O." writes:
>
>1)
>I recently shelled out on a copy of Hard Times (wot no virus?) and was
>intrigued by part of one of the scenarios in which the evil (boo hiss)
>pirate is tricked into stealing this ship with a nuclear damper in the
>cargo hold,  when said baddie stores his nukes in there this device
>renders them PERMENANTLY inoperable
>............ comments any one?
>If this is the case in the Trav' universe then surely you might be able to
>use one to tidy up radioactive messes?

You've heard about situational ethics, right? Well, this is situational
physics.

>
>3)   Additional point
>  Has anyone thought how dumb imperial archaeologists must be to not have
>realised WHO the ancients were?

You mean the Droyne? Don't tell me you really believe the one about
Grandfather!?! In that case I've got a bridge that might interest you.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
  "Free speech gives a man the right to talk about the
'psycology' of an amoeba, but I don't have to listen".
                  Elihu Nivens in 'The Puppet Masters'

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4174
Date: Wed, 20 May 1992 11:44 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: Stories posted on the TML

Greetings again,

Just a quick question:
I've been throwing The 4.5th Frontier War out at you, but with a few
exceptions everybody's been pretty quiet about it (Hey Edmund! Er.. Michael)

So, does anyone have any comments?  Are you reading it?  Are you bored with
it?  Do you like it?  Any criticism?

Also, I know Grant & Co. is probably being delayed due to thisis madness.
But if memory serves, wasn't there someone else out there (a long time ago)
who was posting stories?  (Other than the PBEM)

I believe it was Catie Helm who redirected a message from someone not
directly connected ta the list.  That person offered to send in some stories.
(Sorry, can't remember names)  Well, if you got stories, sure!  Send em.  I
have been trying to keep the volume down by posting the whole shebang slowly.
I suggest you do the same.  If I tried to put the whole 4.5th Frontier War,
in, it would flood the list.  As is, I try to send them off over the weekend
or when the TML is running low on traffic.

Also, a note to those who have read the 4.5th Frontier War before.  Guys,
the stuff I've been posting has been re-edited and redone since I sent you
the lot.  Not any real major changes, but you might want to throw out what I
originally sent you as it gets replaced.

Supercilliously yours,

Scott 2G Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4175
Date: Wed, 20 May 1992 11:43 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: Fuel Leaks and Add-On Armor

Hi folks!

Hydrogen Fuel Leaks:
Now consider:  When we talk about fuel leaks in Trav, we are not talking
about leaking gasoline in air.  We are talking about leaking Liquid
*HYDROGEN* into *VACCUM*.

What is gonna happen?  Well as soon as the pressure in the tank is reduced,
the hydrogen is gonna vaporize.  VOOM!  At that point you're gonna loose any
hope of keeping your leak contained.  It's worse than opening your airlock
to space.  Everything is going to escape.  No hope of containing it.  I
rather doubt that self sealing stuff would work.  Certainly not at TL 8 or 9.

The way self sealing tanks work today is when a bullet punches a whole in the
tank, there's a rubber liner which moves molds itself into the hole and plugs
the leak.  At liquid hydrogen temps, you're gonna have trouble finding
*ANYTHING* that is sufficiently plyable to function in this manner.  And
considering the weapons doing the hole punching, that hole is probably gonna
be a bit on the LARGE size.

As Steve pointed out, the fuel tanks are compartmentalized.  Thus when a
fuel hit occurs, we only loose 1% of total fuel.  (or 10 tons which ever
is greater)  This makes sence to me:  Slow leaks do not.

When a leak occurs, it is going to loose fuel all of a sudden, but then it
will stop when that fuel compartment is empty.  But *even* if you use 4
minute combat terms, it's gonna be all gone by the end of that turn.

About Armor Maximums:
Yes Steve, they do say max add-on armor is TL*5, but they never define add
on armor.  They have never explained weither we are to add that number to
40 or to 4.  The table seems to indicate that it is added on to 4, but I
could be mistaken.  If it is added on to 4 then the Apollo capsule could
*Almost* make it.  (Armor=39)

If we are to say that max armor is TL*5+40 then a TL 3 ironclad could have
Armor 55?  That doesn't sound right to me.

Scott 2G Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4176
From: PHB100@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Date:    Wed, 20 May 92 13:29 EDT
Subject: RE:  Jump drive in Megatraveller

Here is a note that was forwarded to me, which I am throwing out to the list.
If anyone wants to handle it, feel free.  Lewis is not a member of the list,
but, I've sent a note to him about it, so we may be hearing from him in the
near future.



  - - The original note follows - -

In article <13MAY199212514005@rigel.tamu.edu>, ltg3878@rigel.tamu.edu (GOSS,
 LEWIS TAYLOR) writes:
>
> I am a long-time referee of the GDW role-playing game Traveller (now called
> MegaTraveller).  Does anyone have technical information/speculation on the
> engineering aspects of the Jump Drive in this game?  Specifically:
> in Digest Groups "Starship Operating Manual, vol.1" they state that a Jump
> Drive consists of a Dedicated High-Yield Fusion Power Plant,
>                     Energy Sinks (a.k.a Jump Drive capacitors)
>                     Hull Radiators (to dispose of waste heat)
>                     Jump Governor (a dedicated computer system, I presume)
>                     Lanthanum Hull Grid
>
> (players of the original Traveller game will note that this differs from the
> description of the Jump Drive in that system).
>
> in effect, Jump Drive Units are computed as follows (see Referees Manual, p.
 91)
> Energy Sinks Hull Displacement:      0.5% X Jump # of hull
>        Other Hull Displacement:  1 + 0.5% X Jump # of hull
>        Total Hull Displacement:  1 +   1% X Jump # of hull
>
> Note that Energy Sinks can hold 8,775 MW of power per ton.
>
> Book 5:  High Guard (2nd edition) states that Energy sinks (capacitors) cost
> MCr 4 per ton (see the section on Black Globes).
>
> Also, the Starship operating manual states that the Lanthanum Grid is spaced
> at about 1 meter intervals.  Assuming a 100-ton starship in the shape of a
> 11m X 11m X 11m cube (I know its unrealistic, but its simple) and a
> 1mm X 1mm cross-section Lanthanum Grid, this implies 1 liter of lanthanum
> on the Hull of the vessel.
>
> Now, my question:  in the original Traveller game, they supposed Jump coils
> carried vessels through Jumpspace.  This permitted the design of such things
> as Jump tugs, that would attach to a non-Jump capable vessel and carry through
> Jump.  The Lanthanum hull grid would make this impossible, unless the non-Jump
> capable vessel (e.g. a System Defense Boat) had at least a Lanthanum Hull Grid
> installed during construction.  This would not occupy any volume of the
 vessel,
> but would presumable add to the cost of construction.  The other portions of
 the
> Jump Drive could be in the Jump tug, freeing up all that space for other, more
> useful items.
>
> So, does anyone know how much a Lanthanum Hull Grid should cost?  Anybody care
> to speculate about the scarcity and cost of Lanthanum in the far future?  Any
> references would be appreciated (please note, I already have Journal of the
> Traveller's Aid society #24, so this reference would not be of value to me).
>
> Please e-mail me or post your reply.  Thank you.
>
>                               Lewis Taylor Goss
>
>

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4177
Date: Wed, 20 May 92 11:26:01 PDT
From: gwh@lurnix.COM (George W Herbert)
Subject: Re: Cramped Engine Spaces


Despite a generally positive response, there are two questions that
keep coming up about the Cramped Engine Spaces.  One is that the
extra crew would have less space to work.  Two is that some people
don't think that 50% work space is an accurate figure.

	Responding to the first problem, I would argue that in most
vessels, a crew will be working from 10 to 12 hours on the drives,
at most, except during emergencies.  The rest of the time, they're
being left alone.  This is standard practice today with ships at sea;
you do routine maintenance during one "shift" with some overflow,
but leave it alone the rest of the time.
	Since there would be less space to work, with the same number
of people doing say "replacing lateral heat exchanger" the job will take
say one and a half times as long.  Which means that the two assistant
engineers will have two hours less to be calibrating the fuel feed
heater injectors, so you need someone else to handle that.
Not everyone is crawling over the physical drive at the same time.
You're just going to be increasing the length of time that the jobs
involving doing so take, thus requiring more people to handle the
other jobs.

	As for the second... 8-)  Look at any of the published deck
plans.  Azhanti High Lightnings have more than 50% empty or access
space in their drive rooms.   So do most (but not all) of the smaller
ships that have appeared in deck plan form.
	Real naval vessels today have between 50% and 80% of their 
drive spaces empty for maintenance and access purposes.  I think that
using the 50% figure is safe.

- -george william herbert
gwh@lurnix.com

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4178
Date: Wed, 20 May 92 14:13:07 CST
From: Steve_Higginbotham@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US (Steve Higginbotham)
Subject: fuel and armour

Scott 2G Kellogg:
 
>Hydrogen Fuel Leaks:
>Now consider:  When we talk about fuel leaks in Trav, we are not
>talking about leaking gasoline in air.  We are talking about leaking
>Liquid *HYDROGEN* into *VACCUM*.
 
     Even hydrogen has a heat of vaporization.  If kept cold enough,
it won't instantly vaporize, even into vacuum.  And hydrogen CAN be
kept liquid at very close to vacuum pressure.  So it may not VOOM!
into vacuum.
     Note also that liquid ammonia stores more Hydrogen per kiloliter
than liquid hydrogen does (120Kg per Kl, as opposed to 70.6 Kg per
Kl).  So warships may (should!) be carrying fuel in the form of
ammonia, and processing it into H2 as needed.  Then the problem tends
to evaporate.
 
 
>I rather doubt that self sealing stuff would work.  Certainly not at
>TL 8 or 9.
 
I doubt it, too.  I also suspect that space battles at TL8 and 9 are
pretty silly affairs, at best.
 
 
>About Armor Maximums:
>Yes Steve, they do say max add-on armor is TL*5, but they never
>define add on armor.  They have never explained weither we are to add
>that number to 40 or to 4.  The table seems to indicate that it is
>added on to 4, but I could be mistaken.  If it is added on to 4 then
>the Apollo capsule could *Almost* make it.  (Armor=39)
 
I always assumed 40.  Be that as it may, the Apollo capsule is a silly
example.  The apollo capsule (about two MT tons) did NOT mass 25+ tons
metric.  It also did not have a hull stronger than that on most MBTs. 
Estimated armour value of an Apollo is only 10 (at MOST).
 
 
>If we are to say that max armor is TL*5+40 then a TL 3 ironclad could
>have Armor 55?  That doesn't sound right to me.
 
Nor to me.  Though that is only 5 feet of soft steel.  But then I
don't believe that maximum armour that can be fabricated is an
exponential function of TL, either.  And +5 per TL is exponential
(effective armour thickness increases by 57.3% per TL.
 
This is but a part of why I said the vehicle design system falls apart
at the limits - TL low vehicles are miracles of capability compared to
the real world, and TL high ones are, well, magic.  Consider that the
maximum armour value at TL15 is 115 (maybe), which translates to about
224 meters of hard steel.  Sure it's using bonded superdense, and is
thinner - (from Striker) it's actually only 16 meters thick.  A
hundred ton ship would have 100,000+ tons of armour, which SHOULD have
a volume of 6690 Kl, or 495 displacement tons.  Pretty amazing stuff,
eh?
 
Later...

- -- Via DLG Pro v0.991

Steve_Higginbotham@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US

I have learned to use the word "impossible" with the greatest caution.
                                    --W. von Braun

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4179
Date:     Wed, 20 May 92 10:57:09 EDT
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Re:  (4158) Re: cramped engine rooms

"C. Roald" <HOBBIT@AC.DAL.CA> writes:
> Subject: (4158) Re: cramped engine rooms
> 
> >	If a drive has only 70% of its listed space, it requires 40% more
> >maintenance time (or 140% of the engineering crew) and all maintenance
> 
> Isn't the idea of cramming 140% of the personnel into 40% of the space 
> just a little improbable?  Too many cooks and all that?

Yes, but in George's defense I'll point out that the actual "workspace" of
the engineers is not included in the volume of the drive; it is included 
in the volume of the staterooms and other accommodations.  At least that
is how the game is currently rationalized.

Rob Dean


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4180
Date:     Wed, 20 May 92 10:55:08 EDT
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Re:  (4157) Nuclear dampers and alien romance

"J.A.F.O." <BSU646@VAXC.BANGOR.AC.UK> writes:

> I recently shelled out on a copy of Hard Times
> (wot no virus?) and was intrigued
>  by part of one of the scenarios in which the
> evil (boo hiss) pirate is tricked
> into stealing this ship with a nuclear damper
> in the cargo hold,  when said 
> baddie stores his nukes in there this device
> renders them PERMENANTLY inoperable
> ............ comments any one?
> If this is the case in the Trav' universe then surely
> you might be able to use 
> one to tidy up radioactive messes?
> 
> NB   PLEASE,  no 400 megabyte physicist raves about all this! PLEASE....
> I have enough trouble staying awake long enough over the gravitics debate :)

OK.  I'll keep this very short. (-:  You're right.  A damper can clean
radiaoactive messes.  This function is specifically described in the
advanced rules for Striker (Book 2 out of 3), which is unfortunately a
little hard to come by right now.

This, by the way, is another example of a MT problem--the old-timers know
what a damper is and roughly how it works, but it isn't described anywhere
in MegaTraveller...lots of Striker stuff in MT without the required
explanations...

Rob Dean


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4181
Date:     Wed, 20 May 92 11:25:57 EDT
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Re:  (4159) engine rooms and starship combat...

In your letter dated Tue, 19 May 92 09:29:18 CST, you wrote:
>
> >I kind of like the idea that a weapon still causes damage even though
> >it may not penetrate the hull.  I heartily appaud this idea. 
> >Assigning chassis damage is a good idea.  Also burning it's armor off
> >sounds plausible.
>  
> I agree.  I'm skeptical about burning off armour unless the weapons
> are really horrendous (large nukes, spinal mounts, MANY batteries of
> lesser stuff).

I agree with Steve.  Burning off armor is probably not necessary in a game
sense, as long as _some_ hull damage is occuring from what are currently
the "no damage" hits.  Let's look at the current vehicle combat rules,
scaled up to starships, for a second.  A 200 ton free/far trader has hull
points of 180/450 under the current rules.  A 250MW beam laser would do
500 points of damage on a "full penetration hit", and 50 points on a
"no penetration hit".  Now recalling that vehicles get their damage 
multiplied by ten, that would be 1800 points to disable the hull.  That's
only 36 laser shots--three fire phases from a ship with 4 triple turrets
with beam lasers (which would make a decent system defense boat in this
system...)  As it stands now, the poor SDB probably has all of his turrets
arranged as one factor 5 battery, which will cause weapon-1, maneuver-1 or
fuel-1 three times...  (Critical hits on a 5 battery vs. a 200 ton ship
disregarded.)

Rob Dean





------------------------------

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Date: Sun May 24 21:00:13 PDT 1992
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #346: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
4182  20-May-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU Re: Proposed alternate combat (Forward from R
4183  20-May-92 Steve_Higginbotha odds and ends... << "J.A.F.O.": >1) I recentl
4184  20-May-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU Re: Fuel and armor << Me: >Hydrogen Fuel Leak
4185  21-May-92 metlay@phyast.pit Virus in our future, alas << "Doc" Kinne asks
4186  21-May-92 PHB100@PSUVM.PSU. Re: Fuel and Armor << > >} Note also that liq
4187  21-May-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU Hot Rod Lincoln << Warning! Scott Kellogg get
4188  21-May-92 Hans Rancke-Madse Re: Nuclear dampers, aliens and ancients << S
4189  19-May-92 stedee@stedee.Aut Re: Armed Aircraft << George Herbert wrote a 
4190  21-May-92 cat@fgssu1.fgs.sl Funny Little People in Fuzzy Suits << To Byra
4191  22-May-92 Traveller Mailing Re: Hmm.... << > From: R. Dired <rrn@u.washin
4192  22-May-92 Jo Jaquinta       Stories << >Also, I know Grant & Co. is proba
4193  22-May-92 "David Rodger"    Re: TML nightly: Msgs 4185-4190 V39#1 << > Fr
4194  22-May-92 James T Perkins   Re: Stories << Jo Jaquinta <jaymin@maths.tcd.
4195  22-May-92 Steve_Higginbotha engine rooms, etc. << Scott 2G Kellogg: >Cons
4196  22-May-92 Steve_Higginbotha hydrogen, nitrogen, and ammonnia << Scott 2G 
4197  22-May-92 Steve_Higginbotha sex and dampers... << Hans: >But strangely en
4198  22-May-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU Ronny and the Daytonas << Steve writes: }Scot
4199  22-May-92 burt@ptltd.COM     << Been lurking a while, time to throwm my b

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4182
Date: Wed, 20 May 1992 18:03 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: Re: Proposed alternate combat (Forward from Rob Dean)

RE:  (4166) Re: RE: (4152) Re: Proposed Alternate Starship Combat in Traveller

2G Scott writes:

> But I still like the idea of using
> the damage point values.  What we need is to adopt a more mass oriented
> system than the volume oriented system.  (ie 1 damage point per 15 tons
> rather than per 15 kiloliters or something like that)

I wrote this into a 'minimalist' vehicle system redesign when we had the 
first TDR flurry.  What was that?  About a year and a half ago?  As far as
I know, Bertil is the only one who took the idea and actually tried it out
in a game, and I seem to recall that he was pleased with it. (-:  If GDW
wants to revised this section of the rules, I'd be all for it, and I think
that it would be an excellent time to stop and think about what damage 
values for weapons ought to be in relation to the number of damage points
for vehicles.  As it stands now, a typical tank (4 displacement tons)
has a hull value of, um, 4/9, which should be read as 40/90 in "personal"
combat.  A typical TL7 tank gun (say a 10cm high velocity, roughly equal
to a US 105mm) does about 10 points of damage per hit.  Thus, 13 hits
would be required to 'destroy' the hull.  A single hit from a 50MW beam
laser will do 100.  Any idea what the muzzle energy of a 105 tank gun is?

The worst offenders in this problem are the aircraft.  I've posted previously
my calculations showing that a typical current fighter plane in COACC can
take a couple of dozen hits from anti-aircraft missiles before becoming
unflyable...

Rob

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4183
Date: Wed, 20 May 92 19:16:05 CST
From: Steve_Higginbotham@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US (Steve Higginbotham)
Subject: odds and ends...

 "J.A.F.O.":
 
>1) I recently shelled out on a copy of Hard Times (wot no virus?) and
>was intrigued by part of one of the scenarios in which the evil (boo
>hiss) pirate is tricked into stealing this ship with a nuclear damper
>in the cargo hold,  when said baddie stores his nukes in there this
>device renders them PERMENANTLY inoperable
>............ comments any one?
>If this is the case in the Trav' universe then surely you might be
>able to use one to tidy up radioactive messes?
 
We assume so in our games.  Standard Imperial policy after using
nuclear weapons is to clean it up with a damper so the marines can go
in.
 
 
>2) A long while back I posted some queries about how many of you had
>had cross species romance/physical liasons going on in your games and
>how you reckoned soceity might view it.   I got a deafening
>silence..... anyone new out there got sommat to contribute.
 
I suspect romance could happen, physical liaison probably not.  Wrong
sexual cues form the aliens - they are probably no more sexually
exciting than a tree.  Though I do have a human character who thinks
female Aslan are "intriguing".
 
 
>3)   Additional point
>  Has anyone thought how dumb imperial archaeologists must be to not
>have realised WHO the ancients were?
 
I wonder how they EVER figured it out, myself.  They have 421 (or
somewhat fewer) DIFFERENT cultures and technologies.  They don't even
use the same kind of screws from site to site.  So how did ANYONE ever
leap to the conclusion that they all belonged to one race?
 
 
Rob Dean:
 
>I don't.  At least not yet.  Look at it like this.  For smaller
>weapons operating over a _short_ turn, a laser does MW damage if
>pulse, or 2*MW damage if beam.  A ship sized beam laser should do 500
>points of damage in combat--more if the turn length is considered. 
>If it doesn't, then I'll design my ships with the smaller weapons,
>nyet?  The principle is good, but the math is bad.  This reminds
>me--have we _ever_ come to any agreement on whether lasers actually
>shoot at their targets at far orbit range or whether they just slash
>around hoping for a random hit?  If the latter, then a low damage
>might be justifiable (but it should increase as range decreases, not
>from differing beam strength but from increasing time on the
>target).  If the former, then the damage should be larger (or the
>damage from vehicle mounted weapons should be smaller.)
 
I assume that the lasers are aimed exactly at close range, and may
hunt a small amount at long range.  Big question is how stable the
firing platform is, and MT seems to assume that the firing platform
has point-defense FC.  If so, it's about as stable as it gets, and
lasers should only have to hunt to deal with the uncertainty of the
target's position at long range.

BTW, why not use the rated damage from the table in the PLayer Book?  It
covers all shipboard weapons nicely, without having to make up another set
of numbers.
 
Later...

- -- Via DLG Pro v0.991

Steve_Higginbotham@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US

I have learned to use the word "impossible" with the greatest caution.
                                    --W. von Braun

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4184
Date: Wed, 20 May 1992 22:05 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: Re: Fuel and armor

Me:
>Hydrogen Fuel Leaks:
>Now consider:  When we talk about fuel leaks in Trav, we are not
>talking about leaking gasoline in air.  We are talking about leaking
>Liquid *HYDROGEN* into *VACCUM*.

Steve:
}     Even hydrogen has a heat of vaporization.  If kept cold enough,
}it won't instantly vaporize, even into vacuum.  And hydrogen CAN be
}kept liquid at very close to vacuum pressure.  So it may not VOOM!
}into vacuum.

At atmospheric pressures Liquid Hydrogen is somewhere around 7 degrees
Kelvin isn't it?  (Don't have my CRC handy)  To get down to a temperature
where it would remain liquid at say 10 to the minus 5 torr is gonna be
HORRENDOUSLY Low.  I would say the storing it at such a low temperature
is gonna be impractical at any TL *I* care to work with.  Remember, the only
time it would help would be in battle.  At any other time it would mean
added weight and LOTS of additional maintainace.

There is also the question of the additional energy projected into the fuel
tank by whatever punched the hole in it.  That's gonna stir up yer liquid
hydrogen pretty good!

}     Note also that liquid ammonia stores more Hydrogen per kiloliter
}than liquid hydrogen does (120Kg per Kl, as opposed to 70.6 Kg per
}Kl).  So warships may (should!) be carrying fuel in the form of
}ammonia, and processing it into H2 as needed.  Then the problem tends
}to evaporate.
 
Not evaporate!  *VAPORIZE!*  (I know, I know, I couldn't resist the pun...)
Quite true.  Liquid Ammonia has a greater atomic density of hydrogen than
pure liquid hydrogen.  Maybe the Traveller TNE folks should take note?

>About Armor Maximums:
>max add-on armor is TL*5, but they never
>define add on armor.  They have never explained weither we are to add
>that number to 40 or to 4.  The table seems to indicate that it is
>added on to 4

}I always assumed 40.  Be that as it may, the Apollo capsule is a silly
}example.  The apollo capsule (about two MT tons) did NOT mass 25+ tons
}metric.  It also did not have a hull stronger than that on most MBTs. 
}Estimated armour value of an Apollo is only 10 (at MOST).

True, but it was just an example.

>If we are to say that max armor is TL*5+40 then a TL 3 ironclad could
>have Armor 55?  That doesn't sound right to me.
 
}Nor to me.  Though that is only 5 feet of soft steel.  But then I
}don't believe that maximum armour that can be fabricated is an
}exponential function of TL, either.  And +5 per TL is exponential
}(effective armour thickness increases by 57.3% per TL.

}maximum armour value at TL15 is 115 (maybe), which translates to about
}224 meters of hard steel.  Sure it's using bonded superdense, and is
}thinner - (from Striker) it's actually only 16 meters thick.  A
}hundred ton ship would have 100,000+ tons of armour, which SHOULD have
}a volume of 6690 Kl, or 495 displacement tons.  Pretty amazing stuff,
}eh?

Yeah...  I'm not sure what to use really.  It seems to me that you should
be able to just slap thicker armor on there if the design will still float.
I dunno what to say.  Max armor *I* know of at TL 6 was around 18 inches of
steel in the torpedo belts of battleships.  I think that qualifies as
armor 46 (?)  Not Armor=70!

Scott 2G Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4185
From: metlay@phyast.pitt.edu (metlay)
Subject: Virus in our future, alas
Date: Thu, 21 May 92 10:03:33 EDT

"Doc" Kinne asks about the virus we narrowly avoided. Well, I got
bad news for you, Richard. We didn't avoid the stupid thing; it's
due to hit when TNE does, later this year. TNE is gonna be based on
the stupid thing, and the primary argument everyone had with GDW
is that the trends in Hard Times, continued for a few decades, 
would have accomplished the same stuff without need for a virus.

Basically it's like this: Lucan, who's now totally nuts, decides
to release a virus that destroys computer CPUs. It cripples the
Imperium's ability to make computers, which cripples the Imperium, 
and away we go from there. GDW has left the details vague to preserve
the element of surprise, but I have a feeling that 1992 may finally
be the year I split with GDW, stop buying their stuff, and the TML
will have to find a new Historian (at least for the latest rev).

- -- 

Mike Metlay
metlay@minerva.phyast.pitt.edu
Atomic City, P.O. Box 81175, Pittsburgh, PA 15217-0675

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4186
From: PHB100@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Date:    Thu, 21 May 92 10:24 EDT
Subject: Re: Fuel and Armor

>
>}     Note also that liquid ammonia stores more Hydrogen per kiloliter
>}than liquid hydrogen does (120Kg per Kl, as opposed to 70.6 Kg per
>}Kl).  So warships may (should!) be carrying fuel in the form of
>}ammonia, and processing it into H2 as needed.  Then the problem tends
>}to evaporate.

Here's a question for you...If you carry your fuel as ammonia, what do you do
with the nitrogen after processing?  Vent it to space?  Store it for those
times when you use wilderness refuelling and recombine it with the H2 so you
can store it as ammonia again?

If you vent it, would it be possible to detect a ship by the cloud of nitrogen
it leaves behind it?  Or would it be a trail of N?  Would it leave enough N
to detect, perhaps by the wavelengths of light it absorbs from the local sun?
How much N would be contained in a tankful of ammonia?

Paul Baughman
- ----------
Captain Sir Michael Talmoth,  UPP:  BA5A8B

"You see me now a veteran,
     Of a thousand psychic wars,
         I've been living on the edge so long,
             Where the winds of Limbo roar.
- -- BOC


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4187
Date: Thu, 21 May 1992 11:14 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: Hot Rod Lincoln

Warning!  Scott Kellogg gets silly when he's got a song stuck in his head.

CraftID:	Ground Car, Hot Rod Lincoln, TL 5, Cr 4065
Hull:		(7/17) Disp=.075 Config=4USL, Open Top
		Armor=2A, Load=3.9, Unload=3.8
Power:		(3/5) IC=455kw, Dur=10hrs
Loco:		(1/2) Wheels=4, P/W=117,
		Road=176kph, Offroad=53kph	(110 mph)
Comm:		Radio=Reciever (AM?)
Sensors:	Headlights*2
Off/Def:	Engine smokes At high speed
		(Military versions may mount machine gun)
Contols:	Basic mech*1
Accom:		Cramp*4
Other:		Fuel=.091Kl, Cargo=.068Kl
		ObjSize=Sm, EMLevel=Mod
Got a Lincoln motor and it's really souped up,
That Model A body makes it look like a pup
It's got eight cylinders and it uses 'em all,
and and over drive.  It just won't stall.

Got a four barrel carb and a duel exhaust
four-'leven gears, you can really get lost.
It's got safety tubes and I'm not scared
The brakes are good and the tires are fair.

Scott 2G Kellogg
Son you gonna drive me to drinkin'
if you don't stop drivin' that Hot Rod Lincoln.

Careful:  One of these days I'll get Lil' Duce Coupe stuck in my head.
Or GTO, or Cobra, or...

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4188
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Nuclear dampers, aliens and ancients
Date: Thu, 21 May 92 18:21:22 MET DST

Steve Higginbotham replies to
>"J.A.F.O.":
>>1) I recently shelled out on a copy of Hard Times (wot no virus?) and
>>was intrigued by part of one of the scenarios in which the evil (boo
>>hiss) pirate is tricked into stealing this ship with a nuclear damper
>>in the cargo hold,  when said baddie stores his nukes in there this
>>device renders them PERMENANTLY inoperable
>>............ comments any one?
>>If this is the case in the Trav' universe then surely you might be
>>able to use one to tidy up radioactive messes?
>
>We assume so in our games.  Standard Imperial policy after using
>nuclear weapons is to clean it up with a damper so the marines can go
>in.

But strangely enough there are Traveller planets that are radioactive.
Of course a half-way radioactive planet IS a dramatic locale for an
adventure. That's what I meant in a previous posting about situational
physics. When it's convenient you can and when it's convenient you can't.

One thing occurs to me, however. Nuclear dampers work by focussing a
'node' of a field on the material to be treated. That's why no nuclear
screens. Have anyone ever computed the amount of topsoil usually made
radioactive by a nuclear bombardment? How big is a damper node? (The
range of the field is a multiple of the distance between the two field
generators, but I don't think the size of the node is defined anywhere).
So how long would it take to focus a node on every cubic meter of the
affected area? How long do you have to keep it focussed? Perhaps cleaning
up a radioactive planet is not quite so easy as running a vaccuum cleaner
over a carpet.


>>2) A long while back I posted some queries about how many of you had
>>had cross species romance/physical liasons going on in your games and
>>how you reckoned soceity might view it.   I got a deafening
>>silence..... anyone new out there got sommat to contribute.
>
>I suspect romance could happen, physical liaison probably not.  Wrong
>sexual cues form the aliens - they are probably no more sexually
>exciting than a tree.  Though I do have a human character who thinks
>female Aslan are "intriguing".

Given that human beings have been known to consort with goats, and that
the prime sexual organ is the brain, I don't think we can rule out any-
thing.

>>3)   Additional point
>> Has anyone thought how dumb imperial archaeologists must be to not
>>have realised WHO the ancients were?
>
>I wonder how they EVER figured it out, myself.  They have 421 (or
>somewhat fewer) DIFFERENT cultures and technologies.  They don't even
>use the same kind of screws from site to site.  So how did ANYONE ever
>leap to the conclusion that they all belonged to one race?

421 huh? You know, that is just one of the glaring holes in the whole
Grandfather story. "He kept careful count of his descendants and made
sure he killed them all". Yeah, sure. But what about the children that
they had unknown to him? Say during the second millenium of the war when
those surviving must've begun to suspect what he was up to, and in any
case needed allies. Not to mention all the programmed clones they must've
made to decoy Grandfather into killing a clone instead of the real thing.
Phoey!



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
  "Free speech gives a man the right to talk about the
'psycology' of an amoeba, but I don't have to listen".
                  Elihu Nivens in 'The Puppet Masters'

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4189
Date: Tue, 19 May 92 09:00:38 MDT
From: stedee@stedee.Auto-trol.COM (Steve Deemer)
Subject: Re: Armed Aircraft

George Herbert wrote a pretty good summary of the current state of US
law concerning Weapons of Mass Destruction, but I'd like to clarify a
few of his points.

To buy and sell anti-tank guns, rocket launchers, etc., a person needs
a Federal Firearms License.  A Class III FFL allows one to deal in
full auto firearms and a few other controlled devices.  A Class II FFL,
I believe, is what George is referring to when he spoke of being registered
as an "Arms Dealer".  However, a FFL is not required to own controlled weapons,
only to sell them.  There is some licensing and paperwork involved to
buy a controlled device, but you don't have to be a registered dealer.  A
friend of mine buys C4 plastic explosives and shaped charges for his
business, a oil well perforation service.  He has to fill out a ton of
papers, but he doesn't need an FFL to buy.

Tanks and aircraft designed to carry weapons are not classed as weapons
in themselves.  Anyone can buy an M3 Stuart tank or a P-51 Mustang, sans
weapons, no problem.  What you have to do to disable the weapon carrying
capability depends on the BATF's whim.  I knew a group of WWII reenactors
in Oklahoma City who bought a Wehrmacht surplus Hetzer tank destroyer
from a museum in Switzerland in 1981.  To legally import into the
country, they had to have the breech block of the cannon cut in half
to disable it.  They had this pretty carefully done in Europe, then shipped
it to all to Oklahoma, where they applied for a manufacture permit to
enable the cannon.  Once they had the permit from the BATF, they had
the breech welded back together and they had a fully functional light
tank destroyer to play with.  Finding cannon shells to fire was a 
problem, though.

What's happening today is that the BATF is making up its own rules as it
goes along.  If the BATF doesn't want to allow something, they simply
restrict it, regardless of whether or not they have a legal basis to do
so.  For instance, there is an Executive order banning the import of
a list of specific weapons into the US.  The BATF has taken it upon itself
to expand that list to include weapons are not restricted by the order.
One dealer I've read of got clearance from the BATF to import a number
of rifles, got them as far as a US Customs warehouse, then found that
the BATF had changed its mind.  The rifles are sitting in the warehouse,
they are legal to import, but the BATF says no, we won't let you bring
them in.  Sue us.

It's the same thing with the Soviet aircraft.  There are no real legal
restrictions on the aircraft or their systems, but the BATF is simply
overreaching its authority in what it can control.



------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4190
Date: Thu, 21 May 92 13:43:59 PDT
From: cat@fgssu1.fgs.slb.COM (Rather B. Fishing)
Subject: Funny Little People in Fuzzy Suits


To Byran Borich: hello.  With regards to "racoonids" I am not the
author of them - one of the people in my weekly traveller game
invented them several years ago, and we've been playing with them ever
since.  We have a write-up which we were thinking of sending to
Challenge, but since we had character generation rules based on MT, we
decided to drag our feet and see what sorts of new character
generation rules we would get with TNE. (Now that Imperiallines is
coming out, we may send it there instead - we haven't decided.) I will
upload the basic write-up to this list over the week-end, but folks,
we really would like to get some comments back please.  We've tried
very hard in our traveller game not to make them funny little people
in fuzzy suits, but rather real aliens.

About the "space opera" character of the name "Racoonid": that the
name was like-unto-space-opera had never crossed our minds.  It
sounded like as good a name as any, and it _is_ desciptive.
Alternatively, have you ever stopped to think just how space-operish
"Aslani" is?!?  ;->

Catie Helm
cat@piggy.fgs.slb.com _or_ cat@fgssu1.sinet.slb.com


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4191
Date: Fri, 22 May 92 10:51:20 EDT
From: Traveller Mailing List Mail <tml@engrg.uwo.ca>
Subject: Re: Hmm....


> From: R. Dired <rrn@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: (4168) Hmmm....
> 
> 
> Anyone ever consider what kind of effort it would take to make traveller 3D?
> I know that 2D is so damn much simpler, but space isn't supposed to be simple.
> What's the excitement of it's just a bunch of small islands on a real big 
> sea? 

Without a good representation the players only get confused and
discouraged by trying to visualize the 3-D map. If you had a computer
or a 3-D model of the universe then this could be quite practical.
Otherwise most players can't tell what planets are close to their current
postion, and almost none could plot a shortest route course though the 3-D
universe.

> On the same topic, one thing that always bothered me was that population was
> random, no matter how bad the conditions on the planet. 99 billion on a 
> size A with atmosphere F is kind of hard to believe (much less that many on
> size 1, no water, no air)! Why not have modifiers to the population roll based
> on the other rolls? Say, something like this:
> 
[...]
> 
> This way, you wouldn't have all those poor planets with billions next to 
> the perfect one that the GM can name every person on.

Just think of analogies on earth, why is japan so overcrowded while 
Austrailia which is relatively close is almost empty? Usually there
are socio-economic resaons why you see strange population figures, and
what we need is a program/method to come up with novel reasons why
there is a disparagy.

> Also, TL 9-B should reduce the effects of tainted atmosphere to tolerable
> (say, carginogenic, or perhaps a simple lung-wash is needed every month),
> C-D should make it nothing but a faint odor, and E+ should eliminate tainting
> altogether. Remove the requirement for atmospheric type (make it 0-9) for
> industrial worlds.
> 
I agree totally with this, as someone else pointed out (Scott? Metlay? Steve?)
the fossel fuel burning is well past at high tech levels. Perhaps the
populace want to have a tainted atmosphere to be classified as industrial :-)

					-Dan

Dan Corrin, Network Manager, Mechanical Engineering, UWO, London, Ontario
InterNet: dan@engrg.uwo.ca.                                (519) 661-3834
TML/CZ/FrameUsers/Consim FTP site: sunbane.engrg.uwo.ca (129.100.100.12)     

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4192
Date: Fri, 22 May 92 13:57:03 BST
From: Jo Jaquinta <jaymin@maths.tcd.ie>
Subject: Stories

>Also, I know Grant & Co. is probably being delayed due to thisis madness.
>But if memory serves, wasn't there someone else out there (a long time ago)
>who was posting stories?  (Other than the PBEM)
	Actually Lesley's ability to write fiction increases as parts of the
thesis become iminent :-). Displacement activity I suppose :-).
	I had posted "Getting Out of the Doledrums" some time ago. It is the
most relevant (and suitably short) of what I have. I have a fair amount of
stuff written but most of it deals with the pre-history of my campaign which
means it is about as relevant to standard traveller as the Similrilion is to
the Hobbit. There is other stuff which isn't as specific which uses a
Traveller like universe as a setting (there is one grim one I like about a
ship trapped while refueling in a gas giant by a fault in their static 
discharge probe).
	Alternatively there is this competition we wrote back in '89. It was
100 pages long and we playtested it 11 times. We still can't get it out of
our heads! It occurs to me that a story, following the most amusing turns
of the playtesting and competition would make a humorious serial.

	So people, do you want fiction on the TML?

	Send me e-mail indicating "Yea" or "Nay" and, perhaps, the maximum
number of lines per bi-weekly mailing you would be willing to tolerate :-).
If I get sufficiently more Yeas than Nays I'll give it a test run. I'll talk
to James about shifting them down to the bottom of the mailing.

				Jo Grant

P.S. James has pointed out that I have been very remiss. Lesley and I got
married six months ago. Thus the mixing of surnames.

_______________________________________________________________________________
Jo Grant			| "Love is blind, or so it seems, to make me
jaymin@lanczos.maths.tcd.ie	| offer you my dreams. But after all is said and
44 Bancroft Ave., Tallaght,	| done, a blind man's dreams are not much fun."
Dublin 24, IRELAND		|		-- Horslips, "Blindman"

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4193
From: "David Rodger" <DAVE@cont-ed.mail.cornell.edu>
Date: 22 May 92 08:53:06 EST5EDT
Subject: Re: TML nightly: Msgs 4185-4190 V39#1

> From: metlay@phyast.pitt.edu (metlay)
> "Doc" Kinne asks about the virus we narrowly avoided. Well, I got
> bad news for you, Richard. We didn't avoid the stupid thing; it's
> due to hit when TNE does, later this year. TNE is gonna be based on
> the stupid thing, and the primary argument everyone had with GDW
> is that the trends in Hard Times, continued for a few decades,
> would have accomplished the same stuff without need for a virus.
>

Mike -

(Or, anyone)

What is/are TNE and Hard Times?  And what's the above in reference
to?  Thanks for the info.

Dave

- -----
Dave@cont-ed.mail.cornell.edu    Q: "What's the difference between
Dave Rodger                         a duck and a pigeon?"
Cornell University               A: "Basically, a lack of comparison."
Applications Programmer/Systems Analyst  -- D. Mamet, Duck Variations

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4194
Subject: Re: Stories 
Date: Fri, 22 May 92 10:21:40 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.WR.TEK.COM>


Jo Jaquinta <jaymin@maths.tcd.ie> writes:
>> Also, I know Grant & Co.  is probably being delayed due to thisis madness.
>> But if memory serves, wasn't there someone else out there (a long time ago)
>> who was posting stories?  (Other than the PBEM)

The big fiction writers have been metlay and Scott Kellogg.

> So people, do you want fiction on the TML?

Yea. the TML moderator suggests one or two 20kB installments each week
- -- I have traditionally treated multi-part fiction like a story column
in a magazine. Messages over 6kB in size are automatically sorted by the
digester to the end of the digest (unless it appears to be a ship design
- - ship designs are treated as the very lowest form of life and are
always sorted as close to the absolute end of the digest as possible).

James

__   __/         /   /	    Internet Traveller Mailing List, Administrator
    /     /  /  /   /	   James T. Perkins in Beaverton, Oregon, USA
 __/   __/__/__/ _____/   traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4195
Date: Fri, 22 May 92 12:52:10 CST
From: Steve_Higginbotham@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US (Steve Higginbotham)
Subject: engine rooms, etc.

Scott 2G Kellogg:
 
>Consider:  A huge battleship with a HUGE powerplant.  Does that mean that
>50% of that huge volume is work space?
 
Well, in the USNavy it would mean that about 50% was work space.
 
>In it's simplest execution, imagine:  A spherical fusion plant with a 
>series of 3 meter cat walks running around it.  (In my opinion, that is 
>about as large an area as you could concievably use for repair work)
 
Your experience obviously doesn't include removal of a motor-generator 5m
long from it's position in an engine room, and transport from there to a 
repair shop.  It takes more than 3m of space to do a lot of work.
 
 
George:
 
>    Responding to the first problem, I would argue that in most
>vessels, a crew will be working from 10 to 12 hours on the drives,
>at most, except during emergencies.  The rest of the time, they're
>being left alone.  This is standard practice today with ships at sea;
>you do routine maintenance during one "shift" with some overflow,
>but leave it alone the rest of the time.
 
George, in the boats we did maintenance 24 hours a day.  One watch on,
one watch maintenance, one watch asleep.  From the time the boat left
port till after it returned.
 
 
Rob Dean:
 
>Yes, but in George's defense I'll point out that the actual "workspace" 
>of the engineers is not included in the volume of the drive; it is 
>included in the volume of the staterooms and other accommodations.  At
>least that is how the game is currently rationalized.
 
Are we eroding away the cabin space again?  If you assume work space is
part of the accomodations, you have work space amounting to less than 2%
of the machinery space.  You won't get much work done like that.
 
> Any idea what the muzzle energy of a 105 tank gun is?
 
In the range of 5,000,000 to 8,000,000 joules, I believe.  Depends on
what kind of penetrator you use.
 
 
Later...

- -- Via DLG Pro v0.991

Steve_Higginbotham@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US

I have learned to use the word "impossible" with the greatest caution.
                                    --W. von Braun

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4196
Date: Fri, 22 May 92 12:55:03 CST
From: Steve_Higginbotham@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US (Steve Higginbotham)
Subject: hydrogen, nitrogen, and ammonnia

Scott 2G Kellogg:
 
>At atmospheric pressures Liquid Hydrogen is somewhere around 7 degrees
>Kelvin isn't it?  (Don't have my CRC handy)  To get down to a temperature
>where it would remain liquid at say 10 to the minus 5 torr is gonna be
>HORRENDOUSLY Low.  I would say the storing it at such a low temperature
>is gonna be impractical at any TL *I* care to work with.  Remember, the
only
>time it would help would be in battle.  At any other time it would mean
>added weight and LOTS of additional maintainace.
 
Scott, we can already make "slush hydrogen".  We expect to be able to make
it with 50% solid hydrogen in a few more years.  It's not THAT big a deal
to get the temperature down that far.
 
 
>There is also the question of the additional energy projected into the
fuel
>tank by whatever punched the hole in it.  That's gonna stir up yer liquid
>hydrogen pretty good!
 
True.  Unless H2 is a really good heat conductor, it won't make much
difference to most of the contents of the tank, unless it's a small tnak.
 
 
>Not evaporate!  *VAPORIZE!*  (I know, I know, I couldn't resist the
pun...)
>Quite true.  Liquid Ammonia has a greater atomic density of hydrogen than
>pure liquid hydrogen.  Maybe the Traveller TNE folks should take note?
 
They should.  Wanna bet whether they do?
 
 
Paul Baughman (Captain Sir Michael Talmoth,  UPP:  BA5A8B):
 
>Here's a question for you...If you carry your fuel as ammonia, what do 
>you do with the nitrogen after processing?  Vent it to space?  Store 
>it for those times when you use wilderness refuelling and recombine it 
>with the H2 so you can store it as ammonia again?
 
Well, the obvious thing is to vent it with the waste hydrogen (you're only
fusing about four atoms per 7000 present).
Or there's my new alternative (to keep Cynthia on her toes, and annoy 
purists):  Since most of the hydrogen used is actually used as a coolant,
let's use the nitrogen waste as coolant, too.  You have to redesign the
heat exchangers, but that's not a big deal even now.  Assuming nitrogen 
makes about half as good a coolant as Hydrogen (and there really isn't a
good reason why it should be worse at all), then you can run your ship on
twice the MASS of fuel, which takes up about 23% of the VOLUME.  Then 
design a ship that can do 6G, agility-6, and 4 jump-6 without refueling.
(I'm going to call her "Vanguard").
 
 
>If you vent it, would it be possible to detect a ship by the cloud of 
>nitrogen it leaves behind it?  Or would it be a trail of N?  Would it 
>leave enough N to detect, perhaps by the wavelengths of light it absorbs 
>from the local sun? How much N would be contained in a tankful of 
>ammonia?
 
100,000 Kl of ammonia has about 53,364,000 Kg of Nitrogen.  A 100GW plant 
should emit about 4Kg per second.  How detectable that is I have no idea
at all.
 
Later...

- -- Via DLG Pro v0.991

Steve_Higginbotham@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US

I have learned to use the word "impossible" with the greatest caution.
                                    --W. von Braun

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4197
Date: Fri, 22 May 92 12:56:38 CST
From: Steve_Higginbotham@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US (Steve Higginbotham)
Subject: sex and dampers...

Hans:
 
>But strangely enough there are Traveller planets that are radioactive.
>Of course a half-way radioactive planet IS a dramatic locale for an
>adventure. That's what I meant in a previous posting about situational
>physics. When it's convenient you can and when it's convenient you can't.
 
A half-way radioactive planet is also just about impossible.  And 
conveniently ignorng their own background is what Traveller does best.
 
 
>So how long would it take to focus a node on every cubic meter of the
>affected area? How long do you have to keep it focussed? Perhaps cleaning
>up a radioactive planet is not quite so easy as running a vaccuum cleaner
>over a carpet.
 
A good battlefield damper can totally inert the radioactives in 288
nuclear shells in 15 seconds.  It can also clear the induced radioactivity
from an area of 78 hectares in the same time.
 
 
>Given that human beings have been known to consort with goats, and that
>the prime sexual organ is the brain, I don't think we can rule out any-
>thing.
 
Humans I wasn't concerned with.  How do the ALIENS feel about it?  If 
they don't have the same kind of sexuality cycle we do, why should they
consider us attractive?  Admittedly Vargr should have similar sexual cues
to humans, and they might have been rebuilt with a year-round fertility
cycle...
 
 
>421 huh? You know, that is just one of the glaring holes in the whole
>Grandfather story. "He kept careful count of his descendants and made
>sure he killed them all".
 
Yeah, I thought of that too.  And how did he know that some of them 
didn't develop something to let them survive his attacks, and then 
just lay low till he got tired and quit.
 
 
Scott 2G Kellogg:
 
>CraftID:  Ground Car, Hot Rod Lincoln, TL 5, Cr 4065
 
Scott, you have finally gone around the bend.  PLease report either to
your local Euthanasia center, or the nearest branch of the Thought Police
for reprogramming.  We can make you a useful member of society yet...
 
Later...

- -- Via DLG Pro v0.991

Steve_Higginbotham@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US

I have learned to use the word "impossible" with the greatest caution.
                                    --W. von Braun

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4198
Date: Fri, 22 May 1992 13:55 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: Ronny and the Daytonas

Steve writes:
}Scott 2G Kellogg:
>CraftID:  Ground Car, Hot Rod Lincoln, TL 5, Cr 4065
 
}Scott, you have finally gone around the bend.  PLease report either to
}your local Euthanasia center, or the nearest branch of the Thought Police
}for reprogramming.  We can make you a useful member of society yet...
 
}Later...
}Steve_Higginbotham@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US

Oh *YEAH*?!  Think I'm MAD do you!  *I'LL* Show you *MAD*!!!

CraftID:	Ground Car, GTO, TL6, Cr 4820
Hull:		(9/23) Disp=1, Config=4SL, Armor=2B, Open Top
		Load=4.1, Unload=3.5,
Power:		(2/3) ImpIC=540Kw, Dur=5.5 hrs
Loco:		(1/2) Wheels=4, P/W=126, Road=201Kph, Offroad=61kph
Comm:		Radio=Reciever
Sensors:	Headlights*2,
Off/Def:	Wicked paint job!
Control:	EnhMech*1,
Accom:		Adequate*2, Cramp*2, BasicEnv
Other:		Fuel=.15Kl, Cargo=.45Kl Objsize=Sm, EMLevel=Mod

You outta see her on the road course...
or a quarter mile.
This little modified phython...
has got the lates lines
She beats the gassers and the rail jobs.
It really drives 'em wild...

Come on and turn it on!
Wind it up!
Blow it out!
GTO!

Scott 2G Kellogg
NB:  The Displacement on the Hot Rod Lincoln should have been 0.75, not .075.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4199
Date: Fri, 22 May 92 15:15:36 EDT
From: burt@ptltd.COM (Burton Choinski)

Been lurking a while, time to throwm my bit into the ring...
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[]Date: Wed, 20 May 92 02:26:26 -0700
[]From: R. Dired <rrn@u.washington.edu>
[]Subject: (4168) Hmmm....
[]
[]On the same topic, one thing that always bothered me was that population was
[]random, no matter how bad the conditions on the planet. 99 billion on a 
[]size A with atmosphere F is kind of hard to believe (much less that many on
[]size 1, no water, no air)! Why not have modifiers to the population roll based
[]on the other rolls? Say, something like this:

 --- Chart deleted ---

I would also suggest some sort of population/area vs. tech limit.  We have
5+ billion on "one earth area" at TL8 and we are starting to hit the edge
of the envelope...I don't think it would be possible to sustain that many
people with victorian era (TL4.5) technology, much less with TL1 (possible
due to the +1 mod for pop 9).  I think we'd be lucky to stuff 5 million cavemen
on earth at TL0.  I am re-starting a Trav campaign, and as such have written 
an "update" program that I can plug in a spinward marches UPP and have it spit
out my persoanl alterations. 

[]Also, TL 9-B should reduce the effects of tainted atmosphere to tolerable
[](say, carginogenic, or perhaps a simple lung-wash is needed every month),
[]C-D should make it nothing but a faint odor, and E+ should eliminate tainting
[]altogether. Remove the requirement for atmospheric type (make it 0-9) for
[]industrial worlds.

But the tainting should still reduce the population a tad...

[]Anyone want to reinterpret the TLs to make it more sane? I don't mean changing
[]any number, but making Earth 1992, say, 4, and making higher numbers just
[]more specific high-technology. Ship design is going to be re-done anyway,
[]and all the high-tech weapons are silly to begin with.

===============================================================================
Scott "2G" Kellogg sez...

[]}maximum armour value at TL15 is 115 (maybe), which translates to about
[]}224 meters of hard steel.  Sure it's using bonded superdense, and is
[]}thinner - (from Striker) it's actually only 16 meters thick.  A
[]}hundred ton ship would have 100,000+ tons of armour, which SHOULD have
[]}a volume of 6690 Kl, or 495 displacement tons.  Pretty amazing stuff,
[]}eh?
[]
[]Yeah...  I'm not sure what to use really.  It seems to me that you should
[]be able to just slap thicker armor on there if the design will still float.
[]I dunno what to say.  Max armor *I* know of at TL 6 was around 18 inches of
[]steel in the torpedo belts of battleships.  I think that qualifies as
[]armor 46 (?)  Not Armor=70!

This is probably the big bugaboo about armor maximums -- limit the thickness,
not the rating.
===============================================================================
Date:    Thu, 21 May 92 10:24 EDT
From: PHB100@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Subject: (4186) Re: Fuel and Armor
[]Here's a question for you...If you carry your fuel as ammonia, what do you do
[]with the nitrogen after processing?  Vent it to space?  Store it for those
[]times when you use wilderness refuelling and recombine it with the H2 so you
[]can store it as ammonia again?
[]
[]If you vent it, would it be possible to detect a ship by the cloud of nitrogen
[]it leaves behind it?  Or would it be a trail of N?  Would it leave enough N
[]to detect, perhaps by the wavelengths of light it absorbs from the local sun?
[]How much N would be contained in a tankful of ammonia?

Vent it as reaction mass...

   -- Burton Choinski

===============================================================================
[]  /     \    Postscript or BIOS,              Burton Choinski, QA Engineer []
[] ((     ))  we'll spark new life                       burt@vino.ptltd.com []
[] ( \   / )  into your system and                                           []
[]  ( \^/ )        make it fly!                                              []
[]   (( ))                                                                   []
[]    )^(   Phoenix Technologies, Ltd.  Cambridge, MA.                       []
===============================================================================

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun May 24 21:00:23 PDT 1992
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #347: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
4200  22-May-92 bonnevil@stolaf.e Dampers and Romance and Viri, oh my << I'd li
4201  23-May-92 d9bertil@dtek.cha Muzzle Energy << Taken from sci.military: Fro
4202  23-May-92 d9bertil@dtek.cha Multiple responses << > From: Steve_Higginbot
4203  23-May-92 Cynthia_Higginbot Ancients... << Hans writes: >>>3) Additional 
4204  23-May-92 Cynthia_Higginbot megacorps & tech progress << About Megacorpor
4205  23-May-92 Steve_Higginbotha 2G Kellogg's cars... << Well, you've done two
4206  23-May-92 MacGyver          Re: (4193) Re: TML nightly: Msgs 4185-4190 V3
4207  23-May-92 Hans Rancke-Madse 3D Traveller << Dan Corrin replies to R. Dire
4208  23-May-92 Hans Rancke-Madse Nuclear dampers and sexual cues << Steve Higg
4209  23-May-92 Hans Rancke-Madse The Grandfather Story (BHA-HA-HAW!!) << Steve
4210  23-May-92 metlay@phyast.pit Hard Times, TNE and other fiction << To answe

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4200
Date: Fri, 22 May 92 16:19:05 CDT
From: bonnevil@stolaf.edu (Steven Bonneville)
Subject: Dampers and Romance and Viri, oh my

I'd like to make a few (possibly final) comments on some of the recent
threads that have gone through the TML before I lose regular net access
for the forseeable future.  


NUCLEAR DAMPERS: 

    I once had a campaign in which we used nuclear dampers to clean up
areas which had been rendered radioactive by bombardment.  Remember the
old adventure _Leviathan_?  The character who played the captain of the
ship dicovered 0409 Egyrn, the T-norm world that had killed itself in
a nuclear war.  Due to other events in the campaign, around the time of
the 5FW he was awarded a barony over the world with instructions to 
eventually bring it, and hopefully the area, under Imperial rule.  This
may seem an incredible reward, but he was given relatively limited
resources, considering that he was very near the Zhodani colony at
Pa'an/Egyrn....
    It was a lot of fun.  Ruined cities, colonization of the world, 
Zhodani intrigue and outright warfare when both sides dared, and the
possibility that not *all* the original alien inhabitants died made for
aa complicated background.  
    What does this have to do with dampers?  One of the projects he
assigned the Imperial Corps of Engineers involved cleaning up the
contaminated areas so that survey teams and colonists could enter the
area.  He mounted expensive nuclear dampers on armored gravitic vehicles,
and they slowly would treat an area in order to remove the dangerous
contamination. It took a long time to clear even a small area -- first
the area was damped as if the vehicles were plowing it, and then teams
had to go in and make sure nothing was missed, and he was continually
trying to work out something to do with the residual material left
behind in the soil -- lead.  Besides this, he only had so many decontam
vehicles and teams to spare, and not a few hostile neighbors in the
subsector to keep them occupied with other things.  He only could take
the time to clean up the areas he wanted to concentrate on or investigate.
Sometimes, an area would be finished and a storm of rain or dust would
come through, recontaminating everything.


ALIEN ROMANCE:

    I noticed in S&A that the Aslan seem to consider such liaisons *very*
dishonorable.  The fact that they consider them at all probably means that
there are some of the Ftierle who do engage in what most of their folk
would normally consider perverted....


TNE and the VIRUS FROM HELL:

    I'd like to second Metlay's comments.  I could put up with minor
typos in the rules when Traveller was going strong.  But then GDW 
decided that publishing more rule books would be more profitable than
supporting their games with supplements and adventures.  In the last
five years, the only adventure I can think of that they've published
was Knightfall, which missed out on the opportunity to develop the
Rebellion in favor of doing a more balanced "Secret of the Ancients"
adventure, complete with typos.  
    Now I hear that another set of rule books are planned, and that
the current setting will get axed, without any further development.
Furthermore, an unlikely plot device is suggested in place of an
obvious and more reasonable one -- a space virus instead of the gradual
collapse of the Empire.  A sourcebook is planned -- for fall release.
Fall, eh?  Makes me wonder sometimes how serious GDW actually is about
this talk of "increased support".  I've played this game for a long
time, but I doubt that I'll be buying another new rule set quickly.

    Incidentally, does anyone know how close DGP and GDW were in
contact on the design of S&A?  It seems to me that they're trying to
set up an internal civil war for the Aslan as well, with the little
comments about Yerlyariwo/Khaukeairl dishonor and reckless young clans.
I can just see them setting this war off when they activate the idiotic
space computer virus just to keep them from taking the Daibei area
away.  Knock out two of the most important governments in Known Space
to slow things down?  Any comments or thoughts?


- --Steve Bonneville
<bonnevil@stolaf.edu>


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4201
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Muzzle Energy
Date: Sat, 23 May 92 13:03:50 MET DST

Taken from sci.military:

From: leveritt@tbd2.brl.mil (Charles S. Leveritt )
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: Agency Works to Increase Gun Range
Sender: steve@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Steve Bridges)
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Laboratory, APG, MD.

CANNON      PROJECTILE (kg)             MUZZLE           MUZZLE
                                   VELOCITY (m/sec)    ENERGY (MJ)

105-mm          5.87                     1486              6.48
M68 (tank)

120-mm          8.95                     1575              11.1
M256 (tank)

- -bertil-
- -- 
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4202
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Multiple responses
Date: Sat, 23 May 92 13:22:02 MET DST

> From: Steve_Higginbotham@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US (Steve Higginbotham)
> Subject: (4197) sex and dampers...
> 
> Scott 2G Kellogg:
>  
> >CraftID:  Ground Car, Hot Rod Lincoln, TL 5, Cr 4065
>  
> Scott, you have finally gone around the bend.

  *I* think those designs are rather sane, compared to the "Bit transport
cage" I sent in vehicle data to M&M for. 

  I thought they would include it as a Alcyon subcraft but nope:(

CAGE
CraftID: Bits Cage, TL15, Cr 10000
Hull: 1/2, Disp=45liters, Config=4USL Armor=20F, Unloaded=3kg, Loaded=3kg
Power: 1liter TL 14 batteries, Duration 22h
Loco: Human=1
Commo: Radio=1 x Distant (5km)
Sensors: 
Off: BoredTreeRat=1
Def: 
Control: Computer=hand computer x 1, Panel=none, Environ= basic env, basic ls, 
extended ls, integral PLSS A, attachments for exterior power and life support
Accomm: Crew=1, SoSmallStateroomThatYouWouldn'tBelieveIt=1
Other: Cargo=0kl, Fuel=1 ultra high pressure lox bottle, ObjSize=Small, 
EMLevel=None

*****
	
> From: burt@ptltd.COM (Burton Choinski)
> Subject: (4199) 
> 
> I would also suggest some sort of population/area vs. tech limit.  We have
> 5+ billion on "one earth area" at TL8 and we are starting to hit the edge
> of the envelope...I don't think it would be possible to sustain that many
> people with victorian era (TL4.5) technology, much less with TL1 (possible
> due to the +1 mod for pop 9).

  About 4 of the 5 billions live under sub-TL8 conditions, and judging from
the rate of population increase they haven't hit the "edge of the envelope"
yet.

*****

> From: bonnevil@stolaf.edu (Steven Bonneville)
> Subject: (4200) Dampers and Romance and Viri, oh my

>     Incidentally, does anyone know how close DGP and GDW were in
> contact on the design of S&A?  It seems to me that they're trying to
> set up an internal civil war for the Aslan as well, with the little
> comments about Yerlyariwo/Khaukeairl dishonor and reckless young clans.
> I can just see them setting this war off when they activate the idiotic
> space computer virus just to keep them from taking the Daibei area
> away.  Knock out two of the most important governments in Known Space
> to slow things down?  Any comments or thoughts?

  Yes, look at the Solomani, the Zhodani and at Brzk&Co. The Solomani have
begun quarreling on "what is a Solomani" because it is hard to define a
Solomani logically, and in the process removing the Solimani as a threat 
against a core-dumped Imperium. But this is on the edge of belivability, 
because I've never met a racist who cared one whit for logic.

  And there have been mumblings about something strange goings on in the
Consulate, possibly a civil war, judging from TNS reports.

  And then there is Brzks lessened aspirations towards the Imperium, and
the Vilani appeasement of the Vargr.

  It sure looks like the enemies of the imperium are neutralized one by
one...

- -bertil-
- -- 
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4203
Date: Sat, 23 May 92 07:51:52 CST
From: Cynthia_Higginbotham@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US (Cynthia Higginbotham)
Subject: Ancients...

 
Hans writes:
 
>>>3) Additional point
>>> Has anyone thought how dumb imperial archaeologists must be to not
>>>have realised WHO the ancients were?
>>
>>I wonder how they EVER figured it out, myself.  They have 421 (or
>>somewhat fewer) DIFFERENT cultures and technologies.  They don't even
>>use the same kind of screws from site to site.  So how did ANYONE ever
>>leap to the conclusion that they all belonged to one race?
 
>421 huh? You know, that is just one of the glaring holes in the whole
>Grandfather story. "He kept careful count of his descendants and made
>sure he killed them all". Yeah, sure. But what about the children that
>they had unknown to him? Say during the second millenium of the war when
>those surviving must've begun to suspect what he was up to, and in any
>case needed allies. Not to mention all the programmed clones they must've
>made to decoy Grandfather into killing a clone instead of the real thing.
>Phoey!
 
     ...hmmm.  I don't call that a "glaring hole", I call it a "plot 
hook".  So Grandfather kept careful count and killed them all?  BWAH-HA-HA!
     And then of course, we have plot hook #2: Once somebody decided 
that all 421+ sites actually belonged to the same culture, every 
technological ruin that either dates between 500,000 - 300,000 years ago or
is undatable has been lumped into the "Ancients (Droyne)" category by
Imperial archaeologists.  <snicker, snicker!>  Older ruins are either mis-
dated or ignored, because "the only starfaring culture predating the 
Vilani is the Ancients, so this MUST be an Ancient site..."  (Except of
course for the hypothetical Primoridials, which are only known from a site
that NO ONE has found and entered, so how are they known??)
     I can only guess that the Imperium is using the worst of Vilani
and Solomani archaeological traditions... 
 
>  "Free speech gives a man the right to talk about the
>'psycology' of an amoeba, but I don't have to listen".
>                  Elihu Nivens in 'The Puppet Masters'
 
- -- someone else who reads Heinlein, eh?
 

- -- Via DLG Pro v0.991

cynthia_higginbotham@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4204
Date: Sat, 23 May 92 07:50:22 CST
From: Cynthia_Higginbotham@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US (Cynthia Higginbotham)
Subject: megacorps & tech progress

About Megacorporations...
     One of my "suspension of disbelief" crashers in MegaTraveller
has been the concept that so little progress has been made in 3500 years.
(I can excuse the Vilani for not progressing much in 10,000 years; their
culture has been carefully defined as terminally stagnant.)  I can only 
push the belief in "Vilani-influenced research traditions" so far... that
doesn't explain why the Solomani Rim isn't TL20+ after 3500 years of
uninterrupted progress.  (Go read the fine print about the Long Night;
the Old Earth Union was a "Safe Area" (HT definition) that wasn't affected
by the general economic and TL collapse...).  
     HOWEVER, something I just read provides a clue to 1100 years of
slow progress by the 3rd Imperium... and might explain the similar lack of 
progress by the Solomani -- assuming they emphasize megacorporations to
the same extent as the Imperium!  (We all know that the 3rd Imperium
coddles the megacorps at everyone else's expense...)  From DDJ June'92,
p.55:
     (discussing "cottage industry"-level innovators vs. large 
companies) "... There's a self-limiting factor in that these 
megacorporations quickly drive out the people who created the product.  
[Several noted organizations] for example are slowly self-destructing
internally by driving out people who will not work in environments where
there are ten levels of managers above one."
     (same article, later on) "...there are some developments that are
amenable to the anthill approach, and some that are not.  There are 
achievements that come about as a result of a breathtaking insight that
only comes from an individual..."
     
     Emphasis being that breakthroughs are made by innovative 
individuals, who rarely thrive in the megacorporate environment, but that
steady, evolutionary improvement is done quite well by large corporations.
Applying real world principles to the 3rd Imperium, where megacorporations
dominate business in the civilized Imperium, and have dominated it since
the rise of the Sylean Federation, I suggest the following: 
     Megacorporations almost never make breakthroughs.  Breakthroughs are
made
by individuals in academic or very-small scale businesses.  Megacorps
buy out breakthrough businesses, and then monopolize the techonological
breakthrough.  They make incremental improvements to the breakthru tech,
but don't come up with innovative applications for the breakthru 
technology.  In places where the megacorp's regional managers have a
policy of squeezing small, locally competive businesses out of existance,
there are no breakthroughs for the big guys to parasitize.  In places 
where the megacorps have a policy of buying out innovators for cheap and 
then selling the innovation for zillions of credits, would-be innovators
of that generation get the attitude, "why bother going to all that work 
when someone is going to buy me out for small change?"  Alternatively,
if a megacorp buys an innovator out for a good price, he/she/it may be
willing to work on more innovations, but may find that his main client,
the megacorp, has its own ideas on what he should work on, or what specs
his next project must meet for them to finance him, etc, etc... 
Finally, the innovator can start his own company, either failing (a good
discouragement to other would-be innovators), or succeeding beyond his
wildest dreams, raking in gobs of money and becoming... a megacorp!  This,
BTW, seems to be the genesis of several non-Vilani megacorps...
     So, as long as the Imperium encourages the megacorps at the 
expense of the small or individually-held business, technological progress
will be SL-O-O-O-W.  However, items of the mainstream tech level should
be well-designed and have lots of consumer-oriented features.  They should
be relatively standardized within a megacorp's product line.  Where 
there is competition between megacorps, prices should be reasonable,
and products *might* be standardized across megacorp lines.  Where there
is NOT competition, prices will be "what the market will bear" or as 
limited by law.  
     Alert readers will have thought of the obvious corollary: when
or where megacorp dominance fails, technological innovation should 
increase -- but uniformity of technology may vary wildly.  This suggests
that (a) areas bordering/beyond the Imperium NOT dominated by megacorps
and not so chaotic that would-be innovators are too busy trying to survive,
should be technologically advanced/advancing.  E.g., stable Vargr worlds,
the Darrians, some select worlds.  (Notice TL16 Kudzu [sic] in Gvurrdon).
And, (b) come Hard Times and the retreat of the Megacorps, worlds NOT 
clobbered by HT should start picking up the pace of advancement... 
resulting NOT in the desired mix of TL9-12 worlds, but a wild mix of
TL0-3 and TL15+ worlds in the long run...
 
     So what was my point in all this?  Oh, yes.  It was that the 
Megacorporate structure of business in the 3rd Imperium can account for
1100 years of glacially slow progress quite nicely.  Now, can someone
explain why 1800 years of Long Night did not produce "a wild mix of
TL0-3 and TL15+ worlds", and why Hard Times should not??
 
     (Arguments of "that's not in the spirit of classic Traveller" or
"it didn't because GDW says it didn't" are disallowed -- I want an 
explanation that makes sense WITHIN the context of the 3rd Imperium 
universe.)

- -- Via DLG Pro v0.991

cynthia_higginbotham@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4205
Date: Sat, 23 May 92 09:59:54 CST
From: Steve_Higginbotham@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US (Steve Higginbotham)
Subject: 2G Kellogg's cars...

Well, you've done two easy ones now.   Let's try for something a little
tougher:   "a little Nash Rambler".


I'll show him that a Cadillac is not a car to scorn.

Beep, beep!
Beep, beep!

His horn went beep, beep, beep!

Later...

- -- Via DLG Pro v0.991

Steve_Higginbotham@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US

I have learned to use the word "impossible" with the greatest caution.
                                    --W. von Braun

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4206
From: MacGyver <macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Re: (4193) Re: TML nightly: Msgs 4185-4190 V39#1
Date: Sat, 23 May 92 13:01:25 EDT

> What is/are TNE and Hard Times?  And what's the above in reference
> to?  Thanks for the info.


TNE-> Traveller : The New Era, the new name for the third edition traveller.

Hard Times is a supplement published a while ago detailing the life
in the rebellion era.



------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4207
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: 3D Traveller
Date: Sat, 23 May 92 19:04:47 MET DST

Dan Corrin replies to R. Dired:

>>Anyone ever consider what kind of effort it would take to make Traveller
>>3D? I know that 2D is so damn much simpler, but space isn't supposed to be
>>simple. What's the excitement of it's just a bunch of small islands on a
>>real big sea?
>
>Without a good representation the players only get confused and
>discouraged by trying to visualize the 3-D map. If you had a computer
>or a 3-D model of the universe then this could be quite practical.
>Otherwise most players can't tell what planets are close to their current
>postion, and almost none could plot a shortest route course though the 3-D
>universe.

You can make Traveller 3D without too much trouble. I once made a 3D map
of a subsector by blowing up the standard format subsector map to double
size and assuming a depth of nine parsec (from +4 to -4). I used a chance
of 2/6th for a star to be in a cylinder (hex cylinder; does such a
figure have a special name?), so I needed the increased size of hex, as
I got 3 stars in each hex on the average. I then coloured each star
according to depth; I used the seven colours of rainbow plus brown and
white: red, brown, orange, yellow, white (that's level 0), green, light
blue, dark blue and violet. That helps me visualize it: the warmer the
colour, the 'closer' the star is to the viewer. Alternatively there's
plenty of room to put a small number next to each star to indicate depth.

What there isn't room for is all the other information that's usually
found on a Traveller map; you'll be hard pressed to get the starnames
fitted in; perhaps blowing the map up once more, glueing typed names
on and reducing it to A4 size again would work.

What you can't do is to make the _Imperium_ 3D, at least not easily. Just
imagine the number of new stars you'd have to generate. A 3D sector
would, I suppose, be 4x4x4 subsectors (I guess I'd introduce an inter-
mediate level of organization, 8 2x2x2 quadrants to a sector). I don't
know how many sectors deep the galaxy would be, but even if it were only
one, we're looking at a 36-doubling of the star list.

No, I for one is satisfied to stay with Traveller's flat galaxy, although
I'd propably make any new universe I started myself 3D. I'd just use a
correspondingly lesser part of the galaxy.

>>On the same topic, one thing that always bothered me was that population was
>>random, no matter how bad the conditions on the planet. 99 billion on a
>>size A with atmosphere F is kind of hard to believe (much less that many on
>>size 1, no water, no air)! Why not have modifiers to the population roll
>>based on the other rolls? Say, something like this:
>>
>>This way, you wouldn't have all those poor planets with billions next to
>>the perfect one that the GM can name every person on.
>
>Just think of analogies on earth, why is japan so overcrowded while
>Austrailia which is relatively close is almost empty? Usually there
>are socio-economic resaons why you see strange population figures, and
>what we need is a program/method to come up with novel reasons why
>there is a disparagy.

Yes, of course you can have special circumstances (and pretty fun they
are to explain, too), but that T-norm planets have the same AVERAGE
population as worlds with insiduous atmospheres is just plain stupid.
Last monday I sent off two articles to Challenge, one of which dealt
with just this subject. If they reject it, I'll post it here.



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "A  subsector  official  pompously states that the
        subsector  armed  forces  have  four Kinunir class
        ships in service,  each with enough troop strength
        to put down any military operations that threathen
        the peace of the Imperium."

                        ---Adventure 1, The Kinunir

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4208
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Nuclear dampers and sexual cues
Date: Sat, 23 May 92 19:23:36 MET DST

Steve Higginbotham writes:
>Hans:
>
>>So how long would it take to focus a node on every cubic meter of the
>>affected area? How long do you have to keep it focussed? Perhaps cleaning
>>up a radioactive planet is not quite so easy as running a vaccuum cleaner
>>over a carpet.
>
>A good battlefield damper can totally inert the radioactives in 288
>nuclear shells in 15 seconds.  It can also clear the induced radioactivity
>from an area of 78 hectares in the same time.

Where do you get these numbers from? And how can I invalidate them? I want
my half-radioactive planets, dammit! (All right, I'll settle for quarter-
radioactive planets).

>>Given that human beings have been known to consort with goats, and that
>>the prime sexual organ is the brain, I don't think we can rule out any-
>>thing.
>
>Humans I wasn't concerned with.  How do the ALIENS feel about it?  If
>they don't have the same kind of sexuality cycle we do, why should they
>consider us attractive?  Admittedly Vargr should have similar sexual cues
>to humans, and they might have been rebuilt with a year-round fertility
>cycle...

If you want to define aliens as unable to take an interest in anything
that dosen't give off the right cues, go right ahead. But the aliens
we're talking about are all intelligent. I'm not going to stretch my
neck out and claim that the ability to fool oneself and one's glands is
an inevetable result of intelligence, but I will claim that there's no
reason to think that humans would be unique in this department. And as
far as Aslans are concerned, Steven Bonneville points out something that
I think is a heavy indication that they at least can fool themselves:

> ALIEN ROMANCE:
>
>     I noticed in S&A that the Aslan seem to consider such liaisons *very*
> dishonorable.  The fact that they consider them at all probably means that
> there are some of the Ftierle who do engage in what most of their folk
> would normally consider perverted....

It's all in the mind...


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
"I know there are some people in the world who do not tolerate their
fellow human beings, and I just can't _stand_ people like that!"
                                (after Tom Lehrer)

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4209
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: The Grandfather Story (BHA-HA-HAW!!)
Date: Sat, 23 May 92 19:32:14 MET DST

Steve Higginbotham

>Hans:
>
>>421 huh? You know, that is just one of the glaring holes in the whole
>>Grandfather story. "He kept careful count of his descendants and made
>>sure he killed them all".
>
>Yeah, I thought of that too.  And how did he know that some of them
>didn't develop something to let them survive his attacks, and then
>just lay low till he got tired and quit.

Ah! A stasis field! The PCs find a mysterious shining bubble floating
around in the Shionthy Belt. Can they open it? Is it a good idea to
try? Only your Referee knows for sure...



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "This gives a possible range of 56 to 178 starships
         total  in the three Terran starport facilities,  a
         believable quantity for such a star system."

        "We have a maximum of 178 ships in port, and (as it
         is a busy star system)  we will say that there are
         70 docking berths at the Phoenix facility."

                        ---Journal of the Traveller's
                           Aid Society # 18

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4210
From: metlay@phyast.pitt.edu (metlay)
Subject: Hard Times, TNE and other fiction
Date: Sat, 23 May 92 17:31:58 EDT


To answer Dave's question concisely: Hard Times is a Traveller
book designed to sketch out, in a general way, the collapse of
the Third Imperium in the years following the Rebellion's main
armed movements. It's not bad, and if taken to extremes could have
created an environment similar to the one GDW is proposing for
the new rules system (TNE, "Traveller: The New Era") to be released
this fall, without having to postulate a supercomputervirus that
selectively destroys some things and not others all over the IMperium.

Pfagh! Speak no more to me on this, thou worthy. It likes me not.

BTW, the Grant stories Parts 1 through 7 are mine, based on the odd
misadventures of Captain Khagariilian Grant and the crew of the IMSS
Serendipity (*CRASH*) uh, IMSS Inexplicable (*KA-WHOOMF*) er, IMSS
Torch, as they get themselves into and out of all sorts of trouble
while trying to earn an honest buck on the Solomani Rim. Parts 8 and
beyond require more time than I have right now to do, but I hope to at
least get them out of their current Adventure on Terra before drawing
the series to a close. The metaplot after the Terra incident,
involving the tradewar that destroyed Grant's old company, isn't
suitable for a writeup here, and the game was put on hiatus at the end
of that plotline so I could write my thesis. However, we plan to
resume play this summer after I'm done, which will provide more grist
for the mill. I will repost Parts 1 through 7 to refresh people's
memories before posting any new material. How much I post at a time
will probably be regulated by James. (Hi James. And thanks for the
anniversary card. Hugs from Suzanne and me to Glennis and you for YOUR
next anniversary. |-> )

- -- 

Mike Metlay
metlay@minerva.phyast.pitt.edu
Atomic City, P.O. Box 81175, Pittsburgh, PA 15217-0675

------------------------------

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed May 27 21:00:12 PDT 1992
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #348: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
4211  23-May-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU The 4.5th Frontier War (Chapter 2, Part3) << 
4212  23-May-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU More Silly Stuff (Stanley Steamer) << Yup, I 
4213  23-May-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU Things are getting *WEIRD* here in Auburn! <<
4214  24-May-92 Jo Jaquinta       Grav tank -vs- Tech level 1 << Thought I'd as
4215  25-May-92 Hans Rancke-Madse Demographics << I'm working on a small Travel
4216  24-May-92                   Virus my *ss! << The virus is back? Damn! I w
4217  24-May-92                   The Playmates... :-) << Steve sez: }Well, you
4218  24-May-92 Steve_Higginbotha ships of the black war, and others << Rob, I 
4219  25-May-92 anaylor@mihi.une. Silly Vehicles << I know lets have a "STUPIDE
4220  25-May-92 Rupert G. Goldie  Copyrights << Steve Higginbotham writes: > Is

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4211
Date: Sat, 23 May 1992 19:05 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: The 4.5th Frontier War (Chapter 2, Part3)

ON THE TRAIL	(part 3)
     or
Is there a doctor in the sector?
	by
Scott Kellogg
     - XXIV -
     Shtam hung on to the turret pylon.  The force of centripetal
acceleration here was almost negligeable.  The problem lay not in
what forces one felt, but in what one saw.  The universe spun
around his head.  The large, blue green gas giant took up half
the sky.  This might not be so bad if only it would make up it's
mind which side of the sky to stay on.  Slowly it rolled around
them like a huge drunken shark circling its prey.
     As a boy, he had sometimes lain on his back looking at the
ceiling and imagining it was the floor.  After a little while the
sensation seemed quite real, and disorienting.  Now, he realized
it was true.  Up was down, and down was running in circles all
around him.  He closed his eyes for a moment, focused them on the
pylon and descended.
     "Falling!" he shouted instinctively.  The universe was
spinning around his head with no particular orientation.  He
struggled with the tether as he slipped, grabbing it behind him
with his brake hand.  The rope yanked.  No more falling, but he
was drifting seven meters from the pylon.
     He steadied for a moment and then pulled up the rope.  With
only a small centripetal vector holding him, he shot toward the
ship quickly.
     "You all right?" asked Vole the brakeman.
     "I am fine." he sighed.  "I just became momentarily
disoriented, thank you."  He took a deep breath, and sighed.  He
positioned himself again.  "Ok, Climbing!"
     Breaking in a new leg may be more difficult than I thought.
The toe nails are almost complete but what about the reflexes?
     Down he went again, working his way to the inspection hatch.
Grip, slide, slide, grip; grip, slide, slide, grip.  That's
right, Shtam, now concentrate on the climbing not the scenery.
     Weight began to hang itself on his shoulders.  Eleven meters
per second squared acceleration was heavy to a slim, tall zhodani
who evolved in the eight point nine of zhdant.
     The inspection hatch had a mismatched paint job that was a
peeling and cracked blue against the faded green turret.  Weld
marks ran over the turret like a spider web stitching it back
together.  Under the sensors of Shtam's battle dress the metal
fatigue of some sort of past hit was evident.  One quarter of the
turret had been blasted away by some attacker, and welded back
together with sections of other turrets.
     Boy, somebody really put this one together from junk yard
pieces.
     The inspection hatch was jammed shut.  Something of a bad
fit in the reassembly.  Just needs a bit of filing to get it to
open.  The battledress servoes whined a moment, then the metal
rang through his fingertips as the hatch opened.
     "I have opened it.  You can start down now." Shtam radioed.
He worked into the dark turret.  His helmet lights picked out an
empty chair, all the indicators were dark, but missiles were
clearly in the tubes.  Automated missile lifts had several
missiles standing by to be loaded into the tubes rapidly.  The
hatch into the turret was open.  The panels were an electricians
nightmare.  Wiring running out everywhere, switches jury rigged,
parts replaced with panels that had no right to be in a turret.
The loading tube control was stolen from an Air/Raft cruise
control.  "There is quite a mess in here, folks.  Not much outlay
for maintenance on this Vixen."
     "There usually isn't." replied Gresha.
     Shtam concentrated for a moment.  The ship still was
completely dark save the light coming from the open hatchway.
Then he secured his tether.
     A few minutes later, Gresha poked her helmet in the hatch.
"Looks like they cannibalized this whole ship."
     Soon Miakr and Vole had joined them in the shaft leading to
the rest of the ship.
     Shtam drew his gauss pistol.  "We'll head for the bridge."
     "It'll be on deck two, right below the missile bay."
volunteered Gresha.
     The shaft was black and silent as Gresha lead the way with
her gauss rifle pointed purposefully.  The small force of the
centripetal acceleration died away as they climbed away from the
turret into zero gravity.
     The shaft opened into a magazine filled with missiles.  "The
black tipped ones," began Gresha,  "I read them as radioactive."
     Miakr whistled, "Viepchakl, there's a lot of them."
     "The bridge should be two decks up." said Shtam impatiently.
     The overhead hatch was open, showing a black pit beyond the
light.  "Welcome to my parlor..." mumbled Miakr.
     The light peered up to the next deck.  Beyond the decking
the hatch to the bridge was closed.  Shtam went up first.  He
quickly looked around.  The main airlock for the ship was closed
off.  Nearby, the ships locker lay opened and empty.  "All
clear."
     The others followed.
     Shtam glanced over the airlock.  "The lock is pressurized.
     Miakr examined the bridge hatch.  "I think the bridge is
too."
     "Curiouser, and curiouser." mumbled Vole.
     "Well, we can open them but it will mean losing the
integrity." considered Shtam.  "If we seal this deck first we
won't lose the gas that is trapped."
     "Is that important?" asked Miakr.
     "In an investigation of a derelict almost everything is
important." retorted Shtam.
     "Ok." Vole closed and dogged the lower hatch.  "I get you."
     "All right," began Shtam, "first we should open the bridge
compartment.  The reduction in pressure will be less that way,
because of the comparative volumes of the bridge and airlock."
     "Just be careful." warned Gresha.  "Watch for traps."
     Shtam examined the hatchway.  No obvious trigger mechanisms,
no electromagnetic signals from it, no tell tale radiative heat.
Nothing.  "Vole, do your eyes make out anything on this hatch you
feel we ought to know about?"
     "Nothing I can see."
     "All right," Shtam cautioned.  "I am going to release the
manual air valve to equalize the pressure.  Vole, be ready with
your nose to analyze the gas... Now..."
     Gas streamed in unseen.  The tiny pressure registered in
Vole's olfactory sensors.  "Ten to the minus five torr and
rising.  Gas composition seventy nine percent nitrogen, fifteen
percent oxygen, five percent carbon dioxide, point seven percent
hydrogen oxide, point two percent carbon monoxide, point one
percent hydrogen, traces of oil helium, argon, neon.  Conclusion:
at sufficient pressure, unbreatheable by human or vargr.  Ten to
the minus two torr and rising...  Ten to the minus one torr and
rising..."
     "Unbreathable?" asked Gresha.
     "Not enough oxygen, not enough water, too much carbon
dioxide." explained Miakr.
     Vole continued counting to five hundred torr and then
announce that pressure had stableized.
     "Now, shall we see what we have got here?" Shtam opened the
hatch.  His head lamp swept into the blackness.  Quickly he
climbed the ladder and was through the hatch.
     The bridge was a mess.  Paper scattered and floating around
the room in micro gravity.  A few bags scattered here and there.
At the main command chair was a single human figure.
     It was dressed in a vacc suit, a sub machine gun strapped
around its shoulder.  It sat facing the empty video screens and
holo tanks which stared back like sightless eyes.  Shtam floated
over to the figure.
     A human woman.  She lay stretched out in the acceleration
couch.  Shtam turned the his head lamp onto the face.  The face
contorted and black.  Eyes bulged out.  The blackened lips parted
screaming for a last breath.
     Vole began opening the vacc suit seals.  and took a sniff as
the gas escaped.  "Oxygen starvation."
     "Everything points to it." admitted Shtam.  "She must have
run out of fuel and gone through the last of the bottled air."
     "If this ship only ran out of fuel," began Gresha, "Then we
can refuel it..."
     "We have a nice little warship indeed." whistled Shtam.
     - XXV -
     Miakr opened the airlock.
     He jumped back.  His head lamps caught a drifting figure's
face as it moved out of the airlock.  Staring eyes, a muzzle with
lips curled back in hate showing razor teeth.
     He yelled and swung instinctively.  Battle dress swatted
away the fearsome apparition like a fly.  Miakr looked on as the
vargr tumbled across the room stiff as a board and bounced
against the far bulkhead.
     "Dead?" he asked.
     Vole caught the corpse from its gyrations.  "Very dead.  But
this one didn't die from oxygen starvation."
     "What do you mean?" asked Gresha.
     Vole turned the corpse around to face them:  a female.  Two
holes were torn in the body.  "Looks like nine millimeter
bullets.  Now we know why the one on the bridge had an SMG."
     "She's wearing a corsair uniform." Gresha pointed out.
     "What band?" asked Shtam.
     "Looks like the Uekalez.  Hard to say though."
     "What do you know about them?"
     "Tough group.  Strong in space.  This Vixen must've been
theirs.  Had a good fleet 'til recently." she said remembering.
     "What happened to them?" asked Shtam.
     Gresha shook her head.  "The usual I think:  internal splits,
competition moving in.  Happened about three months ago.  I don't
know."
     "Interesting." commented Vole.  "I estimate the time of
death of this vargr at approximately three and one half months
ago."
     - XXV -
     Ten robots stood motionless in the engine room.
     "They're out of fuel." noted Miakr.  "Probably drained to
keep the life support going."
     "Agreed." nodded Shtam.  "Vole, how much fuel do you have at
the moment?"
     "Thirty three point six liters."
     "Well, it will have to do."
     "What do you mean Shtam?" asked Miakr hesitantly.
     "To get control of this ship we will need to use Vole's fuel
to power up the engines." Shtam explained.
     "What?" shouted Miakr.
     "We have to stop the ship's spin before we can refuel it.
To do that we will use Vole's fuel.  He does not carry much, but
it ought to be enough to stop the rotation."
     "He won't have enough to operate!" shouted Miakr eyes wide.
     Gresha stared, "Miakr?"
     "What's the matter?" wondered Shtam, "It will not damage
him."
     Miakr glared "He'll be out of power."
     "So?" asked Gresha.
     "He can't operate.  I won't allow it."
     "Miakr," began Shtam calmly, "Vole will only be powered down
for a little while, an hour at most."
     Miakr only glared.
     "It sound's like a sensible plan." broke in Vole, "But, may
I suggest that I be left with point two liters of fuel?" I can
operate for one hour on that amount."
     Miakr eased.
     - XXVI -
     Miakr glanced at the gauges nervously.  "Fuel temperature
rising... Approaching ignition temperature:  thirty seconds."
     Shtam looked over the main engine christmas tree.  "Gresha,
we will have power in twenty four seconds.  Stand by to activate
emergency de-spin.  Flamboyant stand by for fuel transfer."
     Gresha's radio sounded from the bridge.  "Standing by."
     Niedrsha in the Flamboyant called, "We're in position."
     Miakr shot a glance across his shoulder, "Vole, how is your
fuel holding out?"
     "I will be forced to shut down in two minutes seventeen
seconds."
     "Vole," wondered Shtam, "can't you conserve fuel?"
     "No, he can't." snapped Miakr.  "His fuel cell has only so
much variability.  He's set on lowest power output right now."
     Shtam ignored the curt reply.  "Here it comes.  Four seconds
to ignition."
     The plasma became more and more violent in its slam dancing
ultra violet display.  Suddenly, under the wing of a gaussian,
two deuterium atoms collided with unusual force.  Two individual
nucleii suddenly met.  After billions of years of solitude, the 
protons embraced, and clung to each other with tremendous force,
heat and desire and became one for all eternity.  Love is found
everywhere in nature.
     "We have fusion ignition!" called Shtam, "Activating bridge
controls."
     "She's alive!" shouted Gresha.
     The ship jerked under their feet as the emergency de-spin
system fought the torque of the Vixen.  They held on as the ship
suddenly moved without them.  Vole, with nearly no power to stop
himself, drifted up to the center of the engine room.
     The maneuver jets ate the Vixen's spin.  She slowed and
stopped her slow pirouette.
     "Flamboyant, commence docking and fuel transfer." smiled
Shtam.
     "Quick, Shtam!" shouted Miakr urgently, "Can I bleed off
another point two liters for Vole?"
     - XXVII -
     Hours later, the boarding party was aboard the Flamboyant.
     "Well, how are the engines of that thing, Shtam?" asked
Niedrsha.  "Looks like she's pretty beat up."
     Shtam set his air tanks to recharge.  "Well, actually, the
Vixen is in fairly good condition considering what it must have
been through.  Those ships are built to only be used once.  When
they fire the main missile bay it shakes the ship apart.  She may
have been used a few times."
     Shtam stretched and continued.  "She appears to have
recently undergone a major overhaul.  The equipment appears to
have been stripped from other Vixens to make one working one out
of several damaged ones."
     "It's been cannibalized." nodded Jietlshaiepr.
     "Precisely.  It's been without power now for some time.  The
engines need to be thoroughly checked before she can make jump."
     Niedrsha shook his head.  "Too fuckin' bad.  We don't have
the time.  We got to get after the doc."
     "However," continued Shtam, "if we leave someone here to go
over the ship, and get her going again.  We will have a nice
little warship with the armament of a light cruiser to bargain
with.  It would take a thirteen hundred ton ship to carry the
same armament as this one."
     "And, it carries nukes." nodded Niedrsha.  "Who's staying?"
     Shtam raised an eyebrow.  "Miakr has already volunteered.
He, Vole and Gresha will stay behind."
     Jietlshaiepr's brows knit, "How will they survive?  The
original crew died."
     "We will have to take the Vixen to Aramat's orbit.  There, we
can pick up oxygen for the life support.  She will have enough fuel
to last twenty four weeks at full power.  That should be plenty of
time for us to reach Massina, have the forensics experts go over
the Flamboyant and return."
     "Miakr doesn't mind staying?" queried Jietlshaiepr.
     Shtam shook his head.  "No, he seemed anxious to stay.  He
has ten robots to tinker with:  the automated crew of the Vixen."
     "Sounds like a good plan to me." nodded Jietlshaiepr.
"Sure," nodded Niedrsha, "let's do it.  It'll take a few days for
us to reach Aramat from here."
     Shtam smiled, "I will ride on the Vixen.  I can find out
what repairs she will need and make up a shopping list for
parts."
     - XXVIII -
     Sector Capital Massina Belt A000922-B
Encoded Computer File 604 Gunned Escort Flamboyant
To: Agent 604
From:  Colonel Korispatl, Chief of SORAG operations Ikar Sector
Date: 1102-105
Message:
     I have received your report on your observations of Dr. Mako
Malenkoviepr.  His disappearance has confirmed some facts
concerning the defector:  Colonel Baremkatlashche'.
     I also am in receipt of the report from forensics concerning
the analysis of the gunned escort Flamboyant.
     Your orders are to continue with your current cover in an
attempt to recover Dr. Malenkoviepr.  For this your group's
ownership of the escort has been approved.
     Colonel Baremkatlashche' has been busy it seems.  Malenkoviepr
is one of several scientists now missing.  Our agents report the
kidnapping of several prominent scientists.
     The connection between these kidnappings and Baremkatlashche'
has been found by your report.  It seems that three years ago an
expedition was mounted by SORAG agents to find the lost Imperial
Colonial Cruiser Kinunir.  The expedition was lost with all hands,
cause unknown.  The agents involved were hand picked by
Baremkatlashche'.  It is to be assumed that they did recover the
Kinunir and defected to who ever Baremkatlashche' is now working
for.  The Kinunir has also been sighted in formation with the
pirate transport Star Rider also known to be connected with
Baremkatlashche'.
     The Flamboyant it seems is an interesting case in the extreme. 
The ship matches serial numbers of a gunned escort owned by the
Imperial Mega-Corporation Al Morai.  It was lost two years ago at
grid reference 0410 in the Ile subsector on the rimward extreme of
Ikar sector.  This system commonly known as "The Edge" has
presented a great problem to shipping in that for as long as
records go back, no ships have returned from there.  Lost in that
system are several Zhodani and Imperial warships, the largest and
most recent of which was the Imperial Scout Cruiser:  Bright Light
of the Azhanti High Lightning class.
     We have received reports that the Mega-Corporation Halden
Minerals has found evidence that the planet at "The Edge" is the
habitat of psionic organisms which kill starship crews by driving
them insane.  This is unconfirmed.  However, it would seem that
Baremkatlashche' and his people have solved the problem of going
there and has managed to recover the lost ships.
     This may explain why the particle accelerators have been
removed from the Flamboyant.  The accelerators were either
damaged and could not be replaced, while other more powerful
ships had priority for repair, or they were deliberately removed
to be placed on more heavily armed vessels.
     Halden Minerals may have connections with Colonel
Baremkatlashche', however, this may be difficult to track as
Halden Minerals has backers in nearly every government in the
Ikar sector.  Governments owning stock include:  The Domain of
Alntzar, The Descarothe Hedgemony, The League of Suns, The Trelyn
Domain, The Principality of Caledon, The Easmolian Confederation,
The Confederacy of Duncinae, The Grand Duchy of Marlheim, and The
Carrill Assembly.  There is also considerable stock held by the
Dakaar trading company.  You will be notified if any of these
leads prove to be fruitful.
     Analysis of materials used and techniques reveal that the
Flamboyant was modified using tech level thirteen equipment.
This matches the tech level of the Imperial Viper class fighters
found in the Air/Raft bays The welds in the ship show stresses
indicating the force of gravity on the planet where it was
modified.  Analysis shows the gravity being approximately twelve
meters per second per second acceleration.  (World size nine.)
     Gas contaminants in the welds show a high degree of
industrial pollutants.  This would indicate that either the
planet had a tainted atmosphere, or the ship was in confined in a
tainted environment when worked on.  We have compiled a list of
suspect planets in the sector.  It is interesting to note that no
planets in the Ikar sector have tech thirteen at this time.  A
few tech fourteen planets there are, but none at thirteen.
Nevertheless, we have compiled a list of possible sites for the
base where the Flamboyant was modified:

     JUNGLEBLUT SUBSECTOR
Thenstor  0101 C9C6488-A S    Independant planet            G
Mirayn    0504 D989737-7      Independant planet            G
Winder    0705 C966697-9 S    Independant planet            G
     FESSOR SUBSECTOR
Orbell    0106 C97766A-7      Trelyn Domain                 G
Shodat    0110 X944266-1      Trelyn Domain, Prison        R
     NOMANN'S SUBSECTOR
Kualakhtaea 0809 X987673-1    Independant planet, Reserve  RG
     SCOTIAN DEEP SUBSECTOR
Stirling  0605 A957865-C A    Principality of Caledon       G
Mulkins   0710 D9B4358-7      Independant planet            G
     EA SUBSECTOR
Fask      0208 C9868AA-8      Grand Duchy of Marlheim      AG
Roikhoi   0404 C969543-4      Independant planet            G
Fulton    0704 C98A788-9      Confederacy of Duncinae
     There are other possible planets, however, they have been
ruled out.  The independant planets listed could not afford such
an operation by themselves.  They are listed on the possibility
that an outside government has established a base of operations
there.
     Pirate activity appears to be centered in the Jungleblut,
Fessor, Scotian Deep, and Caledon subsectors.  Of special note is
the Zylath system in the Domain of Alntzar (Jungleblut subsector
0307).  There may be a pirate base there.
     We have received information that the pirate organization
sought to purchase ships from the vargr corsair band Uekalez.
The delivery was to be made in the Zylath system, after first
bringing the ships down from the Vargr Extents.  During this
transport, the Vixen missile platform which you have recovered
misjumped.  Upon delivery the pirates attempted to capture the
vessels rather than pay.  The resulting battle left the Uekalez
fleet damaged or captured.
     This information was obtained from survivors of the frigate
Gdaekvorr.  After the battle, the ship misjumped far into the
Consulate and were interrogated by our staff.  Five of the
corsairs are currently seeking passage out of the Consulate and
are waiting at the Massina Belt.
     They have been manipulated by our agents to seek employment
with your group.  The gunned escort requires a crew of twelve.
With the addition of these corsairs you should have an adequate
crew.  The corsairs also carry sufficient armament to be an asset
to your mission.  See their appended resumes.
     Your top priority is finding the location of Dr.
Malenkoviepr.  At this time we do not know if he was taken
willingly or not.  Should you locate him, you are required to
return him to the Consulate.  If necessary you are to eliminate
Dr. Malenkoviepr to prevent his possible collaboration with
Colonel Baremkatlashche'.
     Good Luck.

Appendix:
Corsair Force Leader  Taek Kfoks   BD9AC9 age 30
Race: Vargr
Sex:  Male
Homeworld:  Gkakhaellan
Height:  1.76 Meters
Fur Color:  Black
Eye Color:  Green
Class II Small Craft Pilot Liscence
Class I Engineer's Certificate
Class I Gunner's Liscence
Possesses an implanted radio transciever.
Leadership training and experienced liaison officer.  Contacts
     Vargr.
Equipment qualified on:  Sensors, Battle Dress, Explosives,
     Computers, Combat Rifles, Hand Guns, Grav-Belt,
     Grav Vehicles
Combat Skills:  Experienced squadron leader.  Has achieved
     distiction as a marksman, Has reached the second level of
     mastery of unarmed combat and zero gravity combat, and edged
     weapons.  Has served as an experienced scout.  Experienced
     in ship to ship tactics.
Has attended Command College and Commando School, achieved high
distinction in Intelligence School.
Weapons and equipment owned:  3 Tillys, Battle Dress, Gauss
Rifle, Accelerator Rifle, SMG, Gauss Pistol, Snub Pistol

Corsair Force Subleader  Tuerz     1EA996 age 26
Race: Vargr
Sex:  Male
Homeworld:  Gkakhaellan
Height:  1.74 Meters
Fur Color:  Grey
Eye Color:  Yellow
Class I Small Craft Pilot Liscence
Class I Gunner's Liscence
Class I Medic Certificate
Possesses an implanted radio transciever.
Experienced in liason and forcible interrogation techniques.
Equipment qualified on:  Sensors, Vacc Suit, Explosives,
     Computers, Combat Rifles, Hand Guns, Grav-Belt,
     Grav Vehicles
Combat Skills:  Has achieved high distiction as a hand gun
     marksman, Has reached the second level of mastery of zero
     gravity combat.  Has served as an experienced scout.
     Experienced in ship to ship tactics.
Has attended Commando school, Intelligence school.
Weapons and equipment owned:  Laser Pistol, Integral Laser
Pistol, Hypo-Gun, Grenade Pistol, Gauss Pistol, Snub Pistol &
Revolver, 8 Body Pistols, Silencers, Sniper Barrel, Flintlock
Pistol, Percussion Revolver, Hand Cannon, Combat Armor, Vacc
Suit, Reflec, Grav Belt

Corsair Force Subleader  Stuzzel   D676A6 age 30
Race: Vargr
Sex:  Male
Homeworld:  Ghaerthu
Height:  1.49 Meters
Fur Color:  Brown
Eye Color:  Light Brown
Class I Small Craft Pilot Liscence
Class I Engineer's Certificate
Class I Gunner's Liscence
Contacts Vargr.  Trained as administrator
Equipment qualified on:  Sensors, Battle Dress, Explosives,
     Computers, Heavy Weapons, Combat Rifles, Hand Guns,
     Grav-Belt, Grav Vehicles
Combat Skills:   Has reached the second level of mastery of
unarmed combat, and edged weapons.  Experienced in ship to ship
tactics.
Has recieved commando training.
Weapons and equipment owned:  Battle Dress, Broadsword, ACR, LMG,
Snub Pistol


Corsair Hand   Kaezorr             874775 age 26
Race: Vargr
Sex:  Female
Homeworld:  Gkakhaellan
Height:  1.47 Meters
Fur Color:  Light Brown
Eye Color:  Green-Brown
Class II Gunner's Liscence
Instructor
Equipment qualified on:  Battle Dress, Computers, Combat and Low
     Recoil Rifles, Hand Guns, Grav Vehicles
Combat Skills:  Has achieved distiction as an accelerator rifle
     marksman, Has reached the second level of mastery unarmed
     combat of zero gravity combat.
Weapons and equipment owned:  Battle Dress, Gauss Rifle,
     Accelerator Rifle, Snub Pistol

Corsair Hand   Rackhan             C88644 age 34 (vargr male)
Race: Vargr
Sex:  Male
Homeworld:  Ghaerthu
Height:  1.51 Meters
Fur Color:  Brown
Eye Color:  Brown
Class II Engineer's Certificate
Class I Gunner's Liscence
Experienced and resourceful computer, electronics and mechanical
     technician.
Equipment qualified on:  Battle Dress, High Energy Weapons, Heavy
     Weapons, Computers, Combat Rifles, Hand Guns, Grav Vehicles
Combat Skills:   Has reached the first level of mastery of
     unarmed combat.
Weapons and equipment owned:  Battle Dress, ACR, LAG, Snub Pistol
(Tilly Operator)

CraftID:  Vargr Exoskeleton 'Tilly' TL=14 Cr 1,097,355
Hull:     (1/1) (400/1000) Disp=2Kl, Config=Contoured, Armor=18G,
          Loaded=3961Kg
Power:    (2/2) Fusion=370kw, Dur=75.5 Days
Loco:     (2/2) Legs=2, Road=152, Offroad=92
Comm:     Radio=Cont, Maser=Reg
Sensors:  Visual(+telescopic +Active IR)*2, Audio=Dist*2
          Spotlight, 
Off:      FGMP-14, RAM Auto Grenade Launcher, Gauss Rifle,
          Laser Welder
Def:      Smoke Ejector
Control:  Brain, HoloHUD, Slave Unit, ECP
Acccom:   Seat=Worn, BasicEnv, BasicLS
Other:    Fuel=1366liter, Heavy Arm*2, Audio Speaker,
          ObjSize=Small, EMLevel=Faint, Strength=200

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4212
Date: Sat, 23 May 1992 19:06 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: More Silly Stuff (Stanley Steamer)

Yup, I guess I have gone off the deep end.

CraftID:	Ground Car, Stanley Steamer, TL4, Cr 8930
Hull:		(7/17) Disp=0.75, Config=U4SL, Armor=1(Iron), Open Top
		Load=3, Unload=2.5,
Power:		(1/2) EarlySteamRecip=62Kw, Dur=5 hrs
Loco:		(1/2) Wheels=4, P/W=21, Road=73Kph, Offroad=22kph
Off/Def:	Noise Frightens Horses!
Control:	SimpleMech*1,
Accom:		Cramp*4
Other:		Fuel=.23Kl, Cargo=.27Kl Objsize=Sm, EMLevel=Mod

Sorry folks don't know a song for this one.
Since you ask so nice, Steve, I'll take a look at the Lil' Nash Rambler.

Beep!  Beep!

Scott 2G Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4213
Date: Sat, 23 May 1992 20:24 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: Things are getting *WEIRD* here in Auburn!

And it just gets weirder and weirder...  :-)

CraftID:	Ground Car, Primative Steamer, TL3, Cr 3742
Hull:		(7/17) Disp=0.75, Config=U4SL, Armor=1(Wood), Open Top
		Load=8.87, Unload=5.02
Power:		(1/3) PrimSteamRecip=30Kw, Dur=5 hrs
Loco:		(1/2) Wheels=4, P/W=4, Road=15Kph, Offroad=2kph
Comm:		AM/FM Stereo Heliograph With 8 track tape player.
Off/Def:	Noise Frightens Horses!  BLACK smoke.
Control:	PrimMech*1,
Accom:		Cramp*4
Other:		Fuel=1.5Kl(Coal), Cargo=.85Kl Objsize=Sm, EMLevel=Mod

Scott 2G Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4214
From: Jo Jaquinta <jaymin@maths.tcd.ie>
Subject: Grav tank -vs- Tech level 1
Date: Sun, 24 May 92 9:39:08 BST


	Thought I'd ask for a collective opinion about a certain scenario.
In the next GaelCon MegaTraveller scenario we have a grav tank fighting a
tech level 1 culture. One of the "surprises" for the tank is loading their
catapults with tar.
	The question is, just how much do you think a grav tank would be
impaired by a few well placed loads of tar? 
	Anyone else seen any low tech "surprises"?
				Jo Grant

_______________________________________________________________________________
Jo Jaquinta			| Warbot: "I am the very model of a modern
jaymin@lanczos.maths.tcd.ie	|		major war machine!"
Dublin, IRELAND			| Jakobot: "So what?"	[Extreme Paranoia]

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4215
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Demographics
Date: Mon, 25 May 92 0:04:22 MET DST

I'm working on a small Traveller adventure (a small fix to keep my
group together until I get the time to continue my campaign :-).
The locale is a small planet with roughly 24.000 inhabitants,
most of which are concentrated in one big colony. Do any of you
have any figures about how many doctors and nurses and hospital
beds a community of 24.000 would have? How big a police force,
how many lawyers, crooks and politicians, how many restaurants,
bars and hotels, how many barbers, butchers and bakers, how many...
well, you get the idea.



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "A  subsector  official  pompously states that the
        subsector  armed  forces  have  four Kinunir class
        ships in service,  each with enough troop strength
        to put down any military operations that threathen
        the peace of the Imperium."

                        ---Adventure 1, The Kinunir

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4216
Date: Sun, 24 May 92 15:10:35 -0700
From: R. Dired <rrn@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Virus my *ss!

The virus is back? Damn! I was hoping Lucan was just going to build some
experimental TL 16 ships w/ antimatter drives or something... 

Okay, I'm sorry, but the virus is just too stupid to believe. Therefore, as an
alternative, I present: 

	Hardcore Times, or Desperate People Doing Desperate Things Like Real
				People Actually Do.

1129: Archduke (Emperor?) Dulinor of Illesh is assassinated on Dlan. After 
reading a formal concession to the throne by Duke Craig, Bzrk, Margaret, 
the Aslan, and strangely enough, the Hivers, Admiral Irene guns down Dulinor
and claims the throne herself by Right of Assassination. Clever fleet
deployment strategies enable her to live long enough to bind most of
the fleet to her. Daibei and the Hierate immediately send all available 
aid, and a defensive perimeter is set up between Margaret's and Dulinor/Irene's
safe zones. 

1130: Military construction in Margaret/Illesh/Daibei almost ceases completely.
Aslan mercenaries are used to destroy independent units within the bounds of
the domain, and obsolete ships are used to construct a makeship X-Boat
network within. Lucan is, of course, incensed, and his master plan is near
completion. 

1131: Emperor Lucan assassinated on capital by units eventually proven to
be Zhodani commandos. almost immediately the Capitol safe zone disintegrates,
and Lucan's former navy divides up into six fleets. Empress Irene issues
no statement concerning the death of the pretender Lucan, but divides the
responsibility for the destruction of his former forces among Antares, 
Massilia, Vland, Illesh, and Daibei. Antares strikes first, destroying both
core fleets in a strange, almost comic battle. Other attacks follow.

1132: By 230, the remains of Lucan's great fleets are destroyed or captured,
and mass excecutions of his former offices commence. His great secret weapon
is never found, of it was, no details were ever released. Solomani warhawks
finally come out on top, and some attacks are launched. Imperial forces
(with the new capitol at Reference) quickly stall the advance, and the 
border ceases to be anything but a large 5-pc-wide free-fire zone.

1133: At imperial orders, industry on all available planets converts to 
the production of general-purpose consumer goods, high-yeild foodstuffs, high
tech (but low-maintenace) building materials, GP weapons like lasers, etc.
Starship construction is pursued as fast as possible, but a full half of 
starships active between 1132 and 1144 are converted military models.

1135: Empress Irene abdicates in favor of Armand, a powerful Merchant. A new
law code is introduced, and specifically denies the Right of Assassination,
and all nobility is to be non-hereditary, except that each noble of standing
B or more can designate one issue (the first, basically) as a knight. The next
90 years are spent repairing the damage done in 1117-1130, and this is done in 
a variety of ways. Landless Aslan (I can't remember the word) males are given
failing and doomed worlds to play with, technological exchanges are set up
to assist those in low-tech areas, and the new IISS is converted into an
internal investigation service, and by 1139 has full policing powers under
the new imperial extradition/interface laws set up by Armand and his daughter
Cassidrine (a tradtion of males following females and vice-versa is set up).

- ---
So mabye I could have done better, but looking at GDW, I know I sure as
hell could have done worse. This leaves our players as follows:

Lucan: Dead. His area becomes a wasteland. Loser.
Bzrk: Autonomous Domain, much larger than Antares. Archduke. Winner.
Vland: Autonomous Domain. Winner, sort of.
Dulinor: Dead. Area becomes integral part of new Empire (the Fourth). 
Craig: Archduke, grandson becomes emperor in 1178. Winner.
Norris: Sixth Frontier War finishes him off. Deneb is divided between Vargr,
	Aslan, Vland, and Zhodani. Loser.
Aslan: Get lots of worlds in Deneb and devasted areas. Lots become imperial
	citizens. Winners, big time.
Hivers: Ever-so mysteriously, trade expands to a vast degree. Big bucks for the
	starfish. Winners.
Solomani: Terra falls again in 1198. Entire Solomani area appropriated by
	Fourth Imperium and Aslan. Losers.
Zhodani: Low-level contacts increase. Deneb headache gone for good. Time for
	another few core expeditions. Keep sneakiness image. Winners.
Vargr: Get lots of land in Deneb, find themselves under Bzrk's thumb trailing.
	Break Even.
Margaret: Loses in the shadow of the more flamboyant and decisive Irene. Still,
	dies in bed. Winner, sort of.
Strephon: Gimme a break. Dies during a refrigerator accident. Loser.
Law and Order: A line of competent rulers take power, and stave off the
	night just in time, dramatic like. Epics galore, but nice clean places
	to read about them, too. Winner.

- ---
The reason I like this better is that you get it both ways. In safe areas,
you have the good `ole Imperium IV, with all that we knew and loved. In
devastated areas, you have slow rebuilding, rediscovery, and more aliens than
you can shake a stick out. There are always a few more raiders to go after,
planets to save, etc. Advanture stuff. But you can go back to Daibei and
actually get s ship built to boot! I know I'd rather play in such a universe
than `Twilight:2000 in Space'. 

Comments, please.



------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4217
Date: Sun, 24 May 1992 17:49 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: The Playmates...  :-)

Steve sez:
}Well, you've done two easy ones now.   Let's try for something a little
}tougher:   "a little Nash Rambler".

All ya gotta do is ask...

CraftID:	Ground Car, Nash Rambler, TL 6, Cr 3299
Hull:		(5/12) Disp=.5, Config=4USL, Armor=1B, Load=2.41, Unload=1.95
Power:		(1/2) ImpIC=423Kw, Dur=5hrs
Loco:		(1/2) Wheels=4, P/W=176, Road=245kph, (154mph) Offroad=74kph
Comm:		Radio=Reciever
Senors:		Headlight*2
Off/Def:	Beep!  Beep!
Control:	BasicMech*1
Accom:		Seats=Cramped*2, BasicEnv
Other:		Fuel=.118Kl, Cargo=.345Kl, ObjSize=Sm, EMLevel=Mod
I saw one once.  Neat car!

CraftID:	Ground Car, Cadillac, TL 6, Cr8572
Hull:		(18/45) Disp=2, Config=4USL, Armor=3B, Load=7.43, Unload=6.22
Power:		(2/3) ImpIC=914Kw, Dur=4hrs 8 min
Loco:		(2/4) Wheels=4, P/W=123, Road=192kph, (120mph) Offroad=58kph
Comm:		Radio=Reciever
Senors:		Headlight*4
Off/Def:	Cool Tail Fins!
Control:	EnhMech*1
Accom:		Seats=Roomy*4, Cramp*2, BasicEnv
Other:		Fuel=.21Kl, Cargo=1Kl, Objsize=Sm, EMLevel=Mod

Now we were doing one hundred and ten and this certainly was a race,
For a Rambler to pass a Caddy, would be a big disgrace.
The guy must have wanted to pass me out as he kept on tootin his horn.
I'll show him that a Cadillac is not a car to scorn.

Beep!  Beep!
Beep!  Beep!
His horn went beep!  Beep!  Beep!

Now we were doing one hundred and twenty as fast as I could go!
The Rambler pulled along side of me as if we were going slow!
The guy rolled down his window,
and yelled for me to hear:
"Hey buddy, how can I get this car
OUT OF SECOND GEAR?????!!!!!"

Beep!  Beep!

Scott 2G Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4218
Date: Sun, 24 May 92 20:46:59 CST
From: Steve_Higginbotham@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US (Steve Higginbotham)
Subject: ships of the black war, and others

Rob, I just picked up Challenge 60 and Assignment: Vigilante.  

Fascinating.

     Ships of the Black War (by Charles Gannon) and Assignment: Vigilante
(by Charles Gannon)  contained an awesome selection of ships.  All of them
seem to be your designs.  Including commentary that matches what you posted
word for word.  Are you moonlighting as Charles Gannon?  Or is he just
"borrowing" your work?
     Is GDW planning on using any more designs from TML, or was this a one
time thing?  And does GDW REALLY think they have a copyright on those
designs, as their copyright blurb seems to imply?  Or are they unaware that
anything posted to internet is public domain, unless posted with copyright
notices?

Later...

- -- Via DLG Pro v0.991

Steve_Higginbotham@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US

I have learned to use the word "impossible" with the greatest caution.
                                    --W. von Braun

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4219
From: anaylor@mihi.une.oz.au (Adam Naylor)
Subject: Silly Vehicles
Date: Mon, 25 May 92 14:11:46 EST

I know lets have a "STUPIDEST AND MOST USELESS VEHICLE DESIGN
COMPITITION" ....

The winner gets a packet of fun sized mars bars .......

The Catagories

1) Dumbest Naval Design (No submitting the "Fighting Ships of the
Imperium" cause GDW (Or DGP) would win hands down .......

2) Dumbest vehicle design with wheels

3) Dumbest grav vehicle design

4) Miscellaneous dumb vehicle design

5) Dumbest non moveable design ........

James, our illustrious (and underpaid) network controller
could be judge, mike metlay could hand out the prizes, 
hmmmmmmm we would need a female solomani terran in a tight swim
suit to help mike and ARRRRGGGGGHHHHHH

- - Apology for Edmunds tirade hes overworked and undersexed, and
overweight, and under the weather etc ........

- - Donations for Edmunds condition can be left in a box on the corner
of 6th and main, Boston . Edmund was last seen at Captain Crunches
place ..........

(Michael)


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4220
From: Rupert G. Goldie <rgg@aaii.oz.au>
Date: Mon, 25 May 92 17:28:14 EST
Subject: Copyrights


Steve Higginbotham writes:

>      Is GDW planning on using any more designs from TML, or was this a one
> time thing?  And does GDW REALLY think they have a copyright on those
> designs, as their copyright blurb seems to imply?  Or are they unaware that
> anything posted to internet is public domain, unless posted with copyright
> notices?
> 

Actually, in countries which are signatories to the Berne Convention (lots of
countries including the US), works that you produce are automatically 
copyright (even without any copyright notice) . If you do release them onto 
an unsuspecting internet it is hard to stop others from freely copying those 
works but you do actually possess the copyright so presumably you have some 
rights if someone takes your works and publishes them under their own name.

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, but I have seen copyrights discussed on the net
plenty of times over the past few years.

On a related topic: Publishers consider electronic publishing of a literary 
work (ie posting your story to the net) to be a prior publishing when 
considering your piece. So if you want to sell first publishing rights to
a publisher, don't release your piece on the net. (This came from Chuq
Von Rospach in misc.writing earlier this year)

- -Rupert
- --
Rupert G. Goldie	rgg@aaii.oz.au
Knock, knock.
Who's there ?
Death.
Death wh--errk.

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

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Subject: TML Bundle #349: Msgs 4221-4242
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TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed May 27 21:00:22 PDT 1992
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #349: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
4221  25-May-92 Hans Rancke-Madse Megahard Times << R. Dired presents an altern
4222  25-May-92 Hans Rancke-Madse Copyright? << Steve Higginbotham writes: > Is
4223  25-May-92 Hans Rancke-Madse Starship combat << Steve Higginbotham once to
4224  25-May-92 Steve_Higginbotha spinal mounts... << Hans: >I've therefor come
4225  25-May-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU The Hondelles... :-) << CraftID: Motorcycle, 
4226  25-May-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU Holy Hubcaps Batman! << Now some of you out t
4227  25-May-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU Ancient Theories << You know, There are a bun
4228  26-May-92 grue@cs.uq.oz.au  New ship design << hi, CraftID: Heavy Cruiser
4229  26-May-92 Hans Rancke-Madse Re: Ancient Theories << Scott Kellogg writes:
4230  26-May-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU Silly Vehicles? How about a Ford Pinto? << Ed
4231  26-May-92 James T Perkins   Re: (4219) Silly Vehicles << anaylor@mihi.une
4232  26-May-92 James T Perkins   Re: (4215) Demographics << Hans Rancke-Madsen
4233  26-May-92 goldman@orac.cray Tools in C using X? << I'm about to dive in a
4234  26-May-92 goldman@orac.cray Imperial News Service? << Does anyone have co
4235  26-May-92 cat@fgssu1.fgs.sl stories, mail bounce to ireland << I tried di
4236  26-May-92 pedro@eltn.utwent neural jacks technology << Hi guys I recently
4237  26-May-92 LTG3878@SUMMA.TAM  << If one wishes to make larger Meson Guns s
4238  26-May-92 gwh@lurnix.COM    Re: Cramped Engine Rooms << Steve Higginbotha
4239  27-May-92 anaylor@mihi.une. Lucans Secret Weapons << Yes Ive been waiting
4240  27-May-92 PPUGLIESE@PimaCC. Traveller News Service << I would also be ver
4241  27-May-92 richard@agora.rai Various stuff about last night's postings << 
4242  27-May-92 LTG3878@SUMMA.TAM Jump Drives in MegaTraveller - a minor tweak 

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4221
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Megahard Times
Date: Mon, 25 May 92 13:51:20 MET DST

R. Dired presents an alternative timeline for Hard Times:

> So maybe I could have done better, but looking at GDW, I know I sure as
> hell could have done worse. This leaves our players as follows:
>
> Norris: Sixth Frontier War finishes him off. Deneb is divided between Vargr,
>       Aslan, Vland, and Zhodani. Loser.

It's contrary to what we've been told about the Zhodani. The Domain of
Deneb is no threat to them, and they prefer a stable, non-threatening
predictable neighbour like Norris to a bunch of unpredictable Vargr and
all-too-predictable Aslan. And without Zhodani backing the Domain is too
strong to pull down. Certainly neither Vargr nor Aslan have a snowball's
chance in hell of getting even as far as GDW claims they have.

But be that as it may, my main objection to it is not plausibility, but
practicality. The Domain is one of the best documented areas of the
Traveller universe. To invalidate 80-90% of all material published about
it is not my idea of a smart thing to do. I'd go so far as to say that if
the destruction of the Domain was the most likely thing to happen, then
we should at all cost come up with some reason why that didn't happen.
But fortunately that's not necessary.

> Aslan: Get lots of worlds in Deneb and devasted areas. Lots become imperial
>       citizens. Winners, big time.

As I've pointed out before, Aslans who become citizens will _strengthen_
the Domain, not destroy it. And saying 'Aslan' is much like saying 'Humans'.
The Aslan entities who will win or loose are individual clans.

> Solomani: Terra falls again in 1198. Entire Solomani area appropriated by
>       Fourth Imperium and Aslan. Losers.

Huh? I can't see that happen. But I can see a lovely ironic developement.
Consider: The Imperium had spent generations on wooing Terra, and they
had made it. Terra had been returned to civilian control, relationships
with the Imperium were cordial, etc.. And then what happens? This bunch
of goose-stepping Solomani-uber-alles types moves in, confident that
THEY know what's best for Terra. What's the bet that they start rooting
'impsymps' and generally throwing their weight about to an intolerable
degree? Certainly the powers that be is not going to relinguish control
of the Solomani Confederation to Terra. No, Terra is going to be an
occupied planet for a long time to come, a hotspot of Imperial sympathy,
a really, really embarassing symbol for the Solomani cause...

> Vargr: Get lots of land in Deneb, find themselves under Bzrk's thumb
> trailing. Break Even.

'Vargr' is another of those terms that's much like 'Humans', only more so.

> Strephon: Gimme a break. Dies during a refrigerator accident. Loser.

If you want to save an appreciable fraction of the Imperium I'd suggest
letting Strephon turn out to be the real thing. He makes a deal with
Margaret (she becomes his heir), convinces Brzk and Craig of his bona
fides and pulls in a good bit of Ileish after Dulinor conveniently dies
(accidentally or by malice aforethought, it makes no difference). With
that he can deal with Lucan, although much of the Core goes down the
toilet in the process. The new frontier becomes a large band between
the Solomani and the Restored Imperium, filled with small polities that
recieve aid from both sides.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "And now to conclude and to finish my song.
         Let us hope that these hard times, they will not last long.
         I hope soon to have occasion to alter my song;
         and sing: All the good times of the Empire.
              In the Empire are jolly good times."

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4222
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Copyright?
Date: Mon, 25 May 92 14:01:47 MET DST

Steve Higginbotham writes:

>      Is GDW planning on using any more designs from TML, or was this a one
> time thing?  And does GDW REALLY think they have a copyright on those
> designs, as their copyright blurb seems to imply?  Or are they unaware that
> anything posted to internet is public domain, unless posted with copyright
> notices?

I'm shaky on this, but does the concept of public domain apply to material
produced after the US implemented the Berne Conventions? As I understand
it, under Berne a creator retains 'creator's rights' (the equivalent of
copyright) to anything that he dosen't explicitly relinguish his rights
to. Merely publishing them without a copyright notice shouldn't do it.

(The way I heard, the US didn't sign the Berne Conventions, but enacted
compatible laws for the US. Perhaps that's the reason for the difference.)

Note: My understanding of the Berne Conventions may well be faulty.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
"I used to argue the matter at first, but I'm wiser now. Facts
are stubborn things, but not half so stubborn as fallacies."
                - Stella Maynard in "Anne of the Island"

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4223
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Starship combat
Date: Mon, 25 May 92 14:22:28 MET DST


Steve Higginbotham once told me that with the introduction of
spinal mounts two ships of 30.000 T and up becomes better than
one ship of twice the size. This is too bad if you want your
big interstellar powers to build fewer and bigger ships to
reduce the number of ships that the Navy can spare for piracy
suppression and annoying PCs.

I've therefor come up with a variant rule for starship combat
that I'd like your opinion on:

    Larger spinal mounts have a longer range than smaller.
    Thus ships equipped with larger SMs gets one or more
    free shots at opponents with smaller SMs before these
    can get within range.

    The number of free shots a ship gets is equal to
    (difference in SM rating divided by the maneuver
    rating of the ship with the lesser SM). The figure
    is rounded up. Thus a ship with a SM rating of L (20)
    against a ship with a SM rating of G (16) and maneuver
    drive 3 will ((20-16)/3) = 1 1/3 = 2 free shots before
    the opponent can start shooting.

I know that this is a simplification of the factors involved.
For a tactical game one ought to take into account the reduced
chance of hitting at long range, and that it shouldn't be
accelleration but speed that decided how long a ship would be
unable to fire back, etc.. But how does it sound as a TCS rule?



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "A  subsector  official  pompously states that the
        subsector  armed  forces  have  four Kinunir class
        ships in service,  each with enough troop strength
        to put down any military operations that threathen
        the peace of the Imperium."

                        ---Adventure 1, The Kinunir

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4224
Date: Mon, 25 May 92 08:40:51 CST
From: Steve_Higginbotham@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US (Steve Higginbotham)
Subject: spinal mounts...

Hans:
 
>I've therefor come up with a variant rule for starship combat
>that I'd like your opinion on:
>
>    <new rule>
>
>I know that this is a simplification of the factors involved.
>For a tactical game one ought to take into account the reduced
chance of hitting at long range, and that it shouldn't be
accelleration but speed that decided how long a ship would be
unable to fire back, etc.. But how does it sound as a TCS rule?
 
The only difficulty I have with the idea is that it will encourage 
exactly the opposite behaviour you are looking for.  At TL15, a type
T meson gun can be fit into a 30,000T ship without too much trouble.
So you'll still see lots of small ships, since now there is even more
reason to use a big spinal mount, and even less to use secondary weapons.
So you'll see more jump-capable flying meson guns in the 30000-40000T 
range, and fewer battleships.
     Alternate suggestion:  if you want bigger ships (and therefore fewer
ships), allow multiple spinal mounts if the ship is big enough.  Say one
spinal mount per 100,000T of ship.  Then the multi-hundred-thousand-tonner
has a fairly significant advantage (of course the Sikkintars will still
beat them in any kind of fair fight).
 
Later...

- -- Via DLG Pro v0.991

Steve_Higginbotham@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US

I have learned to use the word "impossible" with the greatest caution.
                                    --W. von Braun

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4225
Date: Mon, 25 May 1992 12:27 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: The Hondelles... :-)

CraftID:	Motorcycle, Lil' Honda, TL6, Cr 320
Hull:		(1/1) Disp=0.01, Config=0USL, Armor=1B,
		Load=.13, Unload=.126,
Power:		(1/2) IC=7.5Kw, Dur=5 hrs
Loco:		(1/1) Wheels=2, P/W=58, Road=73Kph, Offroad=22kph
Off/Def:	Annoys Harly Riders
Control:	EnhMech*.1
Accom:		None*2
Other:		Fuel=4.5Liter, Cargo=0Kl Objsize=Sm, EMLevel=Mod

It's not a big motorcycle
just a groovy little motorbike
It's more fun than a barrel of monkeys,
that 2 wheeled bike.
I better turn on the light
so we can ride my Honda tonight...

First gear...  It's allright
Second gear... Lean right
Third gear...  Hang on tight

Faster!  It's allright!

Scott 2G Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4226
Date: Mon, 25 May 1992 12:54 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: Holy Hubcaps Batman!

Now some of you out there are wondering:
"Just how crazy is this idiot..."

Would you believe...

Atomic batteries to power!
Turbines to speed!

CraftID:	Ground Car, Batmobile, TL7, Cr 202516
Hull:		(9/23) Disp=1, Config=4SL, Armor=6C, Load=8.3, Unload=6.7
Power:		(3/6) Turbine=2.4Mw, Dur=5 hrs
Loco:		(2/4) Wheels=4, P/W=289, Road=368Kph, Offroad=74kph
Comm:		BatRadio=Reg
Sensors:	BatRadar=Dist, BatHeadlights*4, BatInfraRed*2,
		BatLightAmp*2
Off/Def:	Batzooka in BatTrunk
Control:	BatComputer=Model0, Electronic*10, Slave Unit - remote driving
Accom:		BatSeats=Cramp*2, BasicEnv, BasicLS
Other:		Fuel=.8Kl, Cargo=.82Kl Objsize=Sm, EMLevel=Mod

Na na na na na na na na
Na na na na na na na na
Batman!

Scott 2G Kellogg
(The real Batmobile was a custom modified 1958 Thunderbird)
BTW, Bertil, I *really* liked the Bit cage.  Dangerous offensive weapon,
(BoredTreeRat=1)  I can see the reason for the necessary armor. (Factor 20)
Does Johann carry a liscence for that?
Though a STRICT interpretation of the rules would give it an
EMLevel of Moderate.  :-)

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4227
Date: Mon, 25 May 1992 13:53 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: Ancient Theories

You know,

There are a bunch of things in Trav science that we as players/refs
know, because *WE* are supposed to know them.  Sometimes this gets
disreguarded and the characters find out also.  The Ancients is an
example of this.

We know that the Ancients were the Droyne because GDW said so.  We
know a lotta things simply because GDW/DGP said so.  Individual Refs
may decide to do things differently.

I think the whole Ancients thing was a good mystery.  I think that it
is unfortunate that it was solved.  GDW seems to say that there is
nothing more to learn from the ancient's story other than the odd bits
of technology left over.

There has been stuff put out where an archeologist disagrees with the
notion that the Droyne were the ancients.  But he is considered a wacko
because he goes against current theory.  But WHO decided the current theory?

However, I would emphisize that the *PLAYERS* do NOT know about the
ancients.  They do NOT know who Grandfather is.  They do Not know that
he now lives in a pocket universe a few parsecs from Regina.

Getting back to theory, the players may have heard a lot of THEORY, but
no one knows the truth.

Now, there is one other THEORY that I find annoying, because we are told
by GDW that it is true.  In my opinion, most people would look on it as
nearly a wacky theory as the Droyne being ancients.  That is the Solomani
Hypothesis.

Ok, now, I might grant you that people of the Imperium and beyond *might*
accept that Earth was the planet where human and vargr life originally
evolved.  But put yourself in Vilani shoes for a moment:  A bunch of
jackbooted bigoted morons have announced that according to their findings,
all human life is decended from them.  They are the root of all humanity.

This sounds suspiciously like propaganda to me.

In addition, the Solomani announce that according to their findings, the
Vargr are animals genetically manipulated to produce intelligence.  Yeah!
Right!  I'm sure the *Vargr* are gonna believe that!

Ok, now, us being logical folks we sit back and look at the evidence.
Hmmm... The fossil record shows that they are right...  Hmmm... Who did
the excavations?  The Solomani...  Yup...  Ok... The genetic analysis
indicates that they are right...  Hmmm... Now, who in the Imperium wrote
all the genetics textbooks and theories?  The Solomani...  Yeah... Right...
:-P

See what I mean?  Are you as a thinking reasoning sophont gonna stand
there and take the bigots at their word?

Now, Imperial humans, I can see accepting it.  After all the Solomani
were part of the Imperium once, and they weren't always the bigots they
are now.

But, what about everyone else?

Among the Vargr there are a bunch who don't believe this, but GDW/DGP
says they are seen as the fringe.  Their school of philosphy is that
the Vargr evolved on Earth, and it is humans who were genetically
manipulated to intelligence.  Now, let's look at that for a moment.
Looking at all the human minor/major races all over the place, there
is TONS of evidence for genetic manipulation among humans.  Darrians,
Vilani, Zhodani, etc. etc.

I don't see that everyone will accept the Solomani Hypothesis as much as
we are told they do.

What do you think?

Scott Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4228
Date: Tue, 26 May 92 16:20:37 EST
From: grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Subject: New ship design

hi,

CraftID:  Heavy Cruiser, Type BQ, TL=F (High Stellar), MCr74690.6
Hull:     45000/112500, Disp=50,000, Config=3AF, Armour=75G
Power:    3334/6667, Fusion=900000Mw, Duration=14/42 (36/108 if jump fuel used)
Loco:     3150/6300, Jump=6,
	  NOE=0, Cruise=0, Top=0, Agility=0
Commo:    Meson=3xSystem, Radio=3xSystem, Laser=3xSystem, Maser=3xSystem
Sensors:  PassiveEMS=3xInterstellar, ActiveEMS=3xFar Orbit,
	  EMSJammer=3xFar Orbit, Neutrino=3x10kw, Densitometer=3xHighPen/1km
          ActObjScan= Rout, ActObjPin= Rout,
          PasObjScan= Rout, PasObjPin= Rout,
          PasEngScan= Simp, PasEngPin= Rout
Off:      ParticleAccel = 082, MesonGun = T90
		     Batt 031        Batt 150
		     Bear 031        Bear 140
	  PlasmaGun = x65, FusionGun = xA9
		 Batt 051         Batt 051
		 Bear 041         Bear 041
	  BeamLaser = xx9, PulseLaser = xx7
		 Batt 005          Batt 001
		 Bear 004          Bear 001
	  Missiles = xA7
		Batt 033
		Bear 033
Def:      DefDM=+8, MesonScrn=9, NuclearDamper=9, BlackGlobe=4
          Repulsor = x90, SandCaster = xx94
		Batt 050          Batt 0058
		Bear 040          Bear 0047
Control:  Computer=3x9fib, Panel=50,000xholodynamic linked
          Special=100xheadup holodisplay, 2xlarge holodisplay
          Environ=basic env, basic ls, extend ls, grav plates, inertial comp
Accom:    Crew=353, StateRooms=360
Other:    Cargo=28446, Fuel=150000, JumpFuel=236250
	  ObjSize=Large, EmLevel=Moderate, ECP
	  Fuel Scoops Integral

Comments: The new class of heavy attack cruisers carries a very wide variety
	  of weaponary and mounts a formidable defensive arrangement.  It is
	  capable of one jump 6 and carries integral fuel scoops for wilderness
	  refuelling.  It featues the latest communication and sensor equipment
	  known to imperial scientists allowing for the early detection and
	  elimination of emeny fleets.  The modular construction methods
	  imployed allow for easy maintance and upgrade of the built-in
	  facilities.

	  This class of ships has a balanced offensive/defensive capability
	  that far exceeds that of other ships of equivalent size and jump
	  capability.

Thus spoke the glossy brochure handed out to the fleet admirals on the new
projects division.  Nobody seemed to realise that the ship lacked any form
of maneuver drive, that it would thus be incapable of aiming its spinal
mount and of evading emeny fire!  Despite this small short coming the navy
ordered three prototypes to be built for evaluation purposes.  Each of the
different modules were contracted out to different developers and nobody
reported the total lack of locomotion.  It wasn't until the prototypes
were produced and the final slot the modules into place stage was reached,
until the small flaw was detected.  The prototypes were completed anyway
and towed into orbit and left there as a heavy system defense orbitting
platform.  In this role they serve admirably defending local shipping
from the evil pirate fleets that always seem to appear right next to these
capable vessles (and that get blasted away).








How's this for an entry into the stupid ships contest?
It can go into either the worst ship class or the worst immobile class.
(it is really a ship since it carries a lovely jump drive, it can even use the
drive to escape from possible danger should it start losing a battle against
the evil pirate hordes ;-).






        						Pauli

Paul Dale                       | grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Department of Computer Science  | +61 7 365 2445
University of Queensland        |
Australia, 4072                 | The virus has infected my brain,
                                |     copy it to yours too.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4229
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Ancient Theories
Date: Tue, 26 May 92 15:03:22 MET DST

Scott Kellogg writes:
>
> There has been stuff put out where an archeologist disagrees with the
> notion that the Droyne were the ancients.  But he is considered a wacko
> because he goes against current theory.  But WHO decided the current theory?

Come to that, when did it become the current theory? In 1105 (date of
earliest adventure published) no-one had any notion that the Droyne
had any connection to the Ancients. Remember _Research Station Gamma_
and _Twilight's Peak_? Then some obscure adventurers (the PCs) gets
an inkling of the truth, and hey presto! it's the generally accepted
truth throughout the Imperium. :-P

> CraftID:      Ground Car, Batmobile, TL7, Cr 202516
> Hull:         (9/23) Disp=1, Config=4SL, Armor=6C, Load=8.3, Unload=6.7
> Power:                (3/6) Turbine=2.4Mw, Dur=5 hrs
> Loco:         (2/4) Wheels=4, P/W=289, Road=368Kph, Offroad=74kph
> Comm:         BatRadio=Reg
> Sensors:      BatRadar=Dist, BatHeadlights*4, BatInfraRed*2,
>               BatLightAmp*2
> Off/Def:      Batzooka in BatTrunk
> Control:      BatComputer=Model0, Electronic*10, Slave Unit - remote driving
> Accom:                BatSeats=Cramp*2, BasicEnv, BasicLS
> Other:                Fuel=.8Kl, Cargo=.82Kl Objsize=Sm, EMLevel=Mod

You forgot the rack of different Bat-sprays: The Shark-repellant Bat-spray,
the Fire-retardant Bat-spray, and all the other Bat-sprays!

> Na na na na na na na na
> Na na na na na na na na
> Batman!

Yeahhh!



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
                "I am a jelly doughnut."
                        J.F. Kennedy

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4230
Date: Tue, 26 May 1992 09:15 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: Silly Vehicles?  How about a Ford Pinto?

Edmund?  Michael?  You want silly?  You got it!

CraftID:	Ground Car, Pinto, TL7, Cr 1428
Hull:		(7/17) Disp=.5, Config=4USL, Armor=1B,
		Unload=.857, Load=.887(+3.8)+(2)
Power:		(1/1) IC=50Kw, Dur=5 hrs
Loco:		(1/2) Wheels=4,
		NoCargo P/W=56, Road=135Kph, Offroad=40kph
		Cargo=3.8ton P/W=11, Road=68, Offroad=10
		Cargo=5.8ton P/W=8, Road=60, Offroad=6
Comm:		Radio=Reciever
Sensors:	Headlight*2
Off/Def:	Corbomite device
Control:	Electronic*1
Accom:		Sets=Cramp*2, None*2, BasicEnv
Other:		Fuel=.03Kl, Cargo=3.8Kl (+2Kl if only 2 passengers)
		Objsize=Sm, EMLevel=Mod
		Cargo is often not carried to allow improved performance.
Remarks:	The Pinto class ground car has a very unusual defensive
system, something akin to a Monarch butterfly.  The Monarch butterfly has
poisons in it's systems, that cause a predator to become ill if they eat
one.
	The Pinto uses similar stratagies to dissuade attack.  The heart of
this defence is the gas tank.  When struck with sufficient force, the gas
tank will rupture, catch fire and eventually explode.  However, this was
countered, by the attackers simply moving away from a striken Pinto.  Thus,
the car was equipped with a very special transmission.  When the car is hit
from ahead, the transmission will remain in gear and continue driving until
it noses up against the attacker and then explode.  If struck from behind,
the transmission will automatically shift into reverse to pursue the
attacker.
	The transmission design is referred to as the 'Corbomite Device'
for reasons unknown.
	4 ejection seats are available as an option but this adds 20,000 Cr
to the total cost of the vehicle.

Scott 2G Kellogg
[Ref's:  Any time the chassis is rendered inoperable, but not destroyed, the
car will automatically drive toward the attackers and then explode.  Destroyed
chassis will automatically explode.]

(To the tune of Fun, Fun, Fun)
Well her Daddy drives the T-Bird like a custom tank for General Patton.
With fifty million horse power and an engine half the size of Manhatten
She has to drive a Pinto with an engine manufactured by Briggs and Stratten!

You see her Daddy took the T-Bird so she'll have to drive the Pinto today...

We'll have to finish up the song because we're very quickly reaching the coda..
So let's go cruisin' to the Malt Shop in the Pinto and I'll buy you a soda...
And then tomorrow night I'll ask my Mom if we can borrow her new Toyota!

You see her Daddy took the T-Bird so she'll have to drive the Pinto today...

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4231
Subject: Re: (4219) Silly Vehicles 
Date: Tue, 26 May 92 08:48:24 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.WR.TEK.COM>


anaylor@mihi.une.oz.au (Adam Naylor) writes:
> 2) Dumbest vehicle design with wheels

CraftID: Child's Tricycle, TL 15, kCr265
   Hull: Config=1AF, Armor=10G
  Power: Fusion=1MW, Duration=45/135
   Loco: StdGravThrust=1ton, NOE=190kph
Off/Def: Pintel:VRFGauss,1600rounds/min
  Accom: Operator=1, Seats=crampedx1
 Driver: Sugar-crazed 3-year-old

> James, our illustrious (and underpaid) network controller
> could be judge, mike metlay could hand out the prizes,
> hmmmmmmm we would need a female solomani terran in a tight swim
> suit to help mike and ARRRRGGGGGHHHHHH

As judge, I'll be pre-screening female Solomani for metlay. Interested
parties please apply in person. :-)

James

Apologies to TML subscribers for the sexist sterotyping. :-)

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4232
Subject: Re: (4215) Demographics 
Date: Tue, 26 May 92 08:54:39 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.WR.TEK.COM>


Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> writes:
> Do any of you have any figures about how many [community resources] a
> community of 24.000 would have?...

How about visiting a small but relatively isolated town nearby, or
contacting the chamber of commerce therein? If I was looking for a town
in the 45.000 range, I might choose Corvallis, Oregon (home of Oregon
State University and Mark Cook). I'm not rightly sure how many varied
shops Corvallis has, but as a college town I can state with some
authority that when I was in school there there were exactly thirteen
pizza outlets.

James

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4233
From: goldman@orac.cray.COM (Matt Goldman)
Subject: Tools in C using X?
Date: Tue, 26 May 92 14:20:09 CDT

I'm about to dive in and write a starship building tool for the High 
Guard system.  Before I start, has anyone written such a programme?  
Why code when you can borrow?  Why High Guard and not the latest
MegaTraveller or NETraveller?  I like the old system, and I still use
it.

- -- 
Matthew Goldman            E-mail: goldman@ferris.cray.com
Fax: (612) 683-3099                  Work: (612) 683-3061
"We locked our keys in the flying saucer - do you have a 
 coathanger we could borrow?"

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4234
From: goldman@orac.cray.COM (Matt Goldman)
Subject: Imperial News Service?
Date: Tue, 26 May 92 14:22:35 CDT

Does anyone have collected together all of the Imperial News Service
releases from the beginning of time?  I'm missing JoTAS #1 and from 
#15 or so onward.  I'd be interested in reading what has been
happening in the 'official' universe all these years.

- -- 
Matthew Goldman            E-mail: goldman@ferris.cray.com
Fax: (612) 683-3099                  Work: (612) 683-3061
"We locked our keys in the flying saucer - do you have a 
 coathanger we could borrow?"

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4235
Date: Tue, 26 May 92 14:28:04 PDT
From: cat@fgssu1.fgs.slb.COM (Rather B. Fishing)
Subject: stories, mail bounce to ireland

I tried direct mail to Jo Grant, but I get mail bounces - my apologies 
therefore for sucking up bandwidth.  My message to Jo was in response to
his query as to whether people wanted to see stories on the TML.  Here is
my answer:

This is a yes vote on fiction on the TML.

I could tolerate probably up to a piece of fiction a mailing (ie one
per day), so long as each piece was about half the length of what 
Scott Kellogg typically posts for his 4.5th frontier war stuff.
Alternatively, I could probably be just as tolerant of two to three pieces
a week, each of which was as long as what Scott currently posts for fiction.

In general, the PBEM episodes, even though they show up once in a blue moon,
are too long to digest all at once; also making hard copy of them
to bring home to my traveller group is difficult. When the TML is that 
long I have to schedule the LONG personal print job for after hours, instead 
of during lunch.

My tolerance for fiction on the TML would probably go out the window if the
quality were bad.  So far, however, I and my off-line "lurkers" have enjoyed
what we've seen so far (except our ref keeps getting ideas...).

How's that for a long vague list of ill-defined boundary conditions?

Catie Helm
cat@fgssu1.sinet.slb.com  _or_ cat@piggy.fgs.slb.com


- ----- End Included Message -----


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4236
Date: Tue, 26 May 1992 23:44:29
From: pedro@eltn.utwente.nl (Pedro A.C. Tavares)
Subject: neural jacks technology

Hi guys

I recently found out about neural jack technology in 2300ad.

Could someone give a plausible way for them to work?  I have some trouble
believing them: how can you, from a quite small area (the jack) tap into the
visual nerves (in form of the face), hearing nerves ( on each side of the
head), olfatory sensations (I never bothered to know where those go
throught) and touch and muscle movement (going through the back of the
neck). 

And all that comes from a remarkebly conservative technology (just take a
look at surveillance stuff - almost(?) late 20th century).


====================================
Pedro A.C. Tavares
Faculteit der Technische Natuurkunde
Twente Universiteit
pedro@eltn.utwente.nl
====================================

 


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4237
Date:    Tue, 26 May 1992 9:36:24 -0500 (CDT)
From: LTG3878@SUMMA.TAMU.EDU

If one wishes to make larger Meson Guns superior to smaller Meson Guns,
one should first consider the physics of Meson Guns.  A Meson Gun consists
of two particle accelerators, one for protons, the other for electrons.  The
two beams are made to cross at a point in space.  The resulting nuclear
interation produces a shower of mesons headed away from the firing vehicle.
The input energy to the reaction effects the velocity with which the mesons
move, causing them to move at relatavistic velocities, producing a time-
dilation effect.  Mesons have a definite half-life before they undergo
radioactive decay, but the time-dilation may be used to caused this decay
to occur at a desired place in space (i.e. inside an enemy vessel).  However,
as you wish to cause this decay to happen farther and farther away from the
firing vessel, it is necessary to accelerate the mesons faster and faster,
requiring greater input energy to the Meson Gun.  Hence, larger mesons guns
(which generally have greater energy requirements) should possess larger
range.  There should, in fact be a trade off involved, as the energy can go
into making more mesons of the same velocity, or the same number of faster
mesons.  This effect can be simulated by stating a Attenuation type statistic
for Meson Guns, as well as a Maximum Range.  Of course, Meson Guns do not
"Penetrate" in the usual sense, but the Attenuation statistic should reduce
the number of hits caused by the Meson gun at greater range.  I suggest that
the stated number of hits for each meson gun be that at short range, and that
the following table be used for Attenuation:
		    Attenuation	  TL
           	      1           12
            	      2           13
            	      3           14
            	      4           15+
The effect of Attenuation is to reduce the number of hits by half.  Attenuation
should be considered for each range band beyond Planetary range.			

By the by, none of this is going to effect the original reason this thread
started, which is the desire of a ref to cut down the number of vessel
available to screw with PCs, as even a 10kT vessel could make an adventure
real short (hello, zap!).

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4238
Date: Tue, 26 May 92 13:53:03 PDT
From: gwh@lurnix.COM (George W Herbert)
Subject: Re: Cramped Engine Rooms


	Steve Higginbotham commented in reply to my first defense of 
the cramped engine spaces rule:

>George, in the boats we did maintenance 24 hours a day.  One watch on,
>one watch maintenance, one watch asleep.  From the time the boat left
>port till after it returned.

	I would argue that current submarines qualify for the Cramped Spaces
rule, thus validating it rather than voiding it 8-)
	The US Subs have about 20% less work space than surface ships
do for the same amount of machinery (rough estimate from n-tens of plans
I've been priviledged to look over while I was at school in Naval Architecture)
so they would exemplify the "moderately cramped" rule.  Surface ships do not
in general operate under the same 3 full watch system as subs do, at least
the ones whose crews and officers I've talked with.  Nearly everyone
keeps relatively normal sleeping hours...
	Soviet subs... well, (ugh yuck) they're real cramped.  30% or more
less space than desirable.

- -george william herbert



------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4239
From: anaylor@mihi.une.oz.au (Adam Naylor)
Subject: Lucans Secret Weapons
Date: Wed, 27 May 92 16:26:53 EST

Yes Ive been waiting for it, you have been waiting for it 

LUCANS TOP SECRET WEAPON that is designed to not only defeat Dulinor
and bring back the empire from the brink of chaos, but also remove
that deep down dirt from shag carpets ......

Here it is

Secret Weapon is coming (Watch Out Dulinite Scum !!!!!!)

Its nearly here ........

Craft ID : TOP SECRET
Hull     : Classified
Power    : For Top Secret Research and Design of Secret Weapon Projects
           eyes only .
Loco     : For security clearence "Ultraviolet" only 
Comm     : See Section 123.a/67-rgh.3, Ministry Of Justice Handbook
           for the burning of psionsists
Sensors  : Censored
Off/Def  : Not Telling ......
Control  : I'm not going to tell you, I'm not going to tell you .....
Accom    : Guess .......
Other    : Wouldnt you like to know ......

Obviously the secret weapons team have been tricking lucans arse
for the last 3 years, in fact Lucan still hasnt worked why he doesnt
have the neccessary clearance to look at it .......

Edmund (Michaels Friend)


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4240
Date: Wed, 27 May 92 01:36 MST
From: PPUGLIESE@PimaCC.Pima.edu
Subject: Traveller News Service

I would also be very interested in a compilation of all the JTAS 
TNS bulletins up to the assasination of Strephon.

I think that what happened wrt the Ancients is that GDW built up
so much mystery that they couldn't really come up with a satisfying
answer. IMHO they should've just left it a mystery. A few small
answers here & there but no all-encompassing solution. I was very
disappointed that they just wrote it off as an "act of God" since
that basically is what Grandfather has become. I wonder is this
had something to do with the shift in emphasis away from the 
Marches & towards the Solomani Rim?

PHIL


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4241
From: richard@agora.rain.COM (Richard Johnson)
Subject: Various stuff about last night's postings
Date: Wed, 27 May 92 5:41:48 EDT



First, about community resources:

Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> writes:
:> Do any of you have any figures about how many [community resources] a
:> community of 24.000 would have?...

and James says:
: I'm not rightly sure how many varied
:shops Corvallis has, but as a college town I can state with some
:authority that when I was in school there there were exactly thirteen
:pizza outlets.

And I'll bet Nogales Mexico (just across the border from Arizona, and about 
45,000 last time I looked) has fewer pizza places, fewer educational outlets
(at the university level anyway), and certainly no Mark Cook.  :=)
I think we need to acknowledge that the quantity and quality of community
resources depends a lot on the culture.  The *BEST* university in all of
Europe (west and east) was, until the 1800's or so, Jewish, and in the
midst of Spain, with the inquisistion squashing Christian education all
around it.

==================
Second, Matt Goldman writes:
:
:I'm about to dive in and write a starship building tool for the High 
:Guard system.  Before I start, has anyone written such a programme?  
:Why code when you can borrow?  Why High Guard and not the latest
:MegaTraveller or NETraveller?  I like the old system, and I still use
:it.

I'm not sure if anyone has written one.  Not sure instantly anyway.
Try contacting cat@engrg.uwo.ca and get involved with all of us
(who are exceptionally quiet of late) who are supposed to be actually
_interested_ in computers and traveller.  :=)

You could get really brave and design a deck plan mapper....


================
Third, Catie Helm says:
:This is a yes vote on fiction on the TML.
:
:I could tolerate probably up to a piece of fiction a mailing (ie one
:per day), so long as each piece was about half the length of what 
:Scott Kellogg typically posts for his 4.5th frontier war stuff....

Me Too!  :=)
I nominate Scott for this year's "best read while relativistically 
accelerated" award, and Nick Sylvain for last year's.  Good stuff, too
for the most part.

==========
Finally, George W. Herbert and Steve Higginbotham discuss cramped quarters:

:[subs] exemplify the "moderately cramped" rule.  Surface ships do not
:in general operate under the same 3 full watch system as subs do, at least
:the ones whose crews and officers I've talked with.  Nearly everyone
:keeps relatively normal sleeping hours...

Who are the lucky tars you've talked to?  During my time in the Coast Guard
we often went 4 on 8 off or even port/starbord (6 on 6 off) for weeks while
underway.  One of the main reasons I opted to leave the sea.  The other is
that the sea and I reached an agreement:  I won't go out, and I won't get 
sick.  :=)

George, plese send me some references for good naval architecture info.
I'm toying with the notion of building a boat to warm up for the plane
I'm going to build (and I AM going to build one).  Not that they're any
simpler, I know that.  It's just that if a boat sinks on a test flight,
you can pretty much swim to shore. Not so lucky in a plane.

You who are smart GM's might consider this as a seed for an adventure
or two.

- -- 
Richard Johnson      richard@agora.rain.com
Qui custodii ipsos custodes?

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4242
Date:    Wed, 27 May 1992 9:25:31 -0500 (CDT)
From: LTG3878@SUMMA.TAMU.EDU
Subject: Jump Drives in MegaTraveller - a minor tweak

The following question arose during a recent Traveller campaign.  If jump
drives in MegaTraveller use a lanthanum hull grid to carry the ship into
jump, how do non-Starships use a jump shuttle.  In Supplement 7, Traders &
Gunboats (pp. 36-37), there is a Jump Shuttle that attaches to the rear of
a System Defense Boat.  It does not fully enclose the SDB, so the lanthanum
hull grid of the jump shuttle will not suffice to carry the SDB into jump.
Further research revealed the depiction of the World Class Battle Tender with
Battle Riders in Supplement 8, Library Data (p. 16).  Once again, the battle
riders are not fully enclosed by the tender.  It is my contention that any
non-Starship that is to be carried into jump by another vessel must be fully
enclosed by that vessel, unless the non-Starship has at least a Lanthanum grid
of its own.  Then, the assisting vessel provides the jump fuel, jump power
plant, jump governor, jump hull radiators, and jump energy sinks (this
breakdown of the jump drive into component parts is based of DGP's Starship
Operations Manual, vol. 1, p. 9).

Using Book 5:  High Guard (p. 31), it is possible to contruct the following 
information:

Energy Sinks displace 0.5% of hull volume X Jump #.
The Jump Governor displaces 1% of hull volume.
The Jump Power Plant displaces 0.5% of hull volume X Jump #.
The Lanthanum Hull Grid and Jump Hull Radiators have no effective displacement.

Energy Sinks cost MCr4 per ton of energy sink.
The Jump Governor costs MCr1 per ton of governor.
The Lanthanum Hull Grid costs MCr0.02 X hull volume in tons.
The Jump Power Plant and Jump Radiators costs MCr2 per ton of Jump Power Plant.

e.g. 1.  a 100-ton Starship has a Jump-2 drive.  This can be broken down into:
   1.0 ton  of energy sink
   1.0 ton  of jump governor.
 + 1.0 ton  of high-yield power plant.
 = 3.0 tons of total jump drive

The price can be broken down into:
   MCr4 for the energy sinks.
   MCr1 for the jump governor.
   MCr2 for the lanthanum hull grid.
 + MCr2 for the high-yield power plant & hull radiators
 = MCr9 total for the jump drive.

In other words, exactly the same total displacement and cost as stated in the
Referee's Manual! (No accident, of course).

e.g. 2.  a 400-ton non-Starship has a Lanthanum Hull Grid installed.  This will
add MCr8 to the total cost foo the vessel.  Compare this to the cost of the SDB
on p. 85 of the Imperial Encyclopedia.  This will add 2.1% to the cost of the
vessel (factoring in the 20% discount for a standard design).  Note that the
vessel is still considered a non-Starship, because it is still dependent on its
jump shuttle to enter jump.

I therefore conclude that this design change will not alter the price or
performance of Starships, and will only slightly alter the price of non-
Starships.  Speaking as a fan of the Battle Rider concept, I'm releived to say
that.

Perhaps the more important change is that in Space Combat.  Since the effect 
Jump -n on the damage tables can be attributed to damage to the Lanthanum hull
grid (albeit damage so extensive that this result is located on the Interior
Explosion chart), the above mentioned SDB can now suffer this damage in combat.
This effect is difficult to attain, so that the Battle Rider concept still
makes sense.  See Traveller's Digest #16, pp. 42-43 for a more extensive 
discussion of this.

e.g. 3.  The above mentioned 400-ton SDB is normally capable of Jump-1 when
mated with its Jump Shuttle.  In combat, the SDB suffers the result Jump -1.
The SDB/Shuttle Combination can no longer jump together.  Of course, the
Jump Shuttle can still mate with another, undamaged, SDB, or jump by itself.
Damage to the SDB results in no reduction in performance for the jump
shuttle.

As an interesting side note, it is possible to determine that the energy
required to enter jump is 351 MW X Jump # per displacement ton of vessel
(see DGP's Starship Operations Manual, vol. 1, p. 13, and the Referee's
Manual, p. 95).

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

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Subject: TML Bundle #350: Msgs 4243-4256
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TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun May 31 21:00:12 PDT 1992
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #350: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
4243  27-May-92 metlay@phyast.pit Is there still a Swedish Bikini Team in 1121.
4244  27-May-92 Robert S. Dean    Use of Dean Designs << Please make note of th
4245  27-May-92 William Dow Riede Revenge of the Silly vehicles... << My entry 
4246  28-May-92 grue@cs.uq.oz.au  Flying saucers? or magic pizzas? << hi, Have 
4247  28-May-92 anaylor@mihi.une. Pizzas << So far guys I think the pizza boxes
4248  28-May-92 anaylor@mihi.une. Computers << Howdy again, this is a serious n
4249  28-May-92 PPUGLIESE@PimaCC. Jump Shuttles & Tenders << The discussion abo
4250  28-May-92 PHB100@PSUVM.PSU. My entry in the silly vehicle contest << Here
4251  28-May-92 Hans Rancke-Madse Re: Jump shuttles << LTG3878@SUMMA.TAMU.EDU (
4252  28-May-92 Hans Rancke-Madse Re: Community ressources << Richard Johnson w
4253  28-May-92 jpb@umbio.med.mia Long running TCS campaigns << Hello, all. I'v
4254  29-May-92 Hans Rancke-Madse Assignment: Vigilante << I got this mini-modu
4256  28-May-92 popeet!wildstar@u Oh, No! More Wildstar! << tempfil2 

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4243
From: metlay@phyast.pitt.edu (metlay)
Subject: Is there still a Swedish Bikini Team in 1121...?
Date: Wed, 27 May 92 11:28:51 EDT



> From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.WR.TEK.COM>
> Subject: (4231) Re: (4219) Silly Vehicles 
> 
> anaylor@mihi.une.oz.au (Adam Naylor) writes:
> > 2) Dumbest vehicle design with wheels
> 
> CraftID: Child's Tricycle, TL 15, kCr265

I like this one but are you sure it's the dumbest? I'd vote for the Batmobile,
myself....

> > James, our illustrious (and underpaid) network controller
> > could be judge, mike metlay could hand out the prizes,
> > hmmmmmmm we would need a female solomani terran in a tight swim
> > suit to help mike and ARRRRGGGGGHHHHHH
> 
> As judge, I'll be pre-screening female Solomani for metlay. Interested
> parties please apply in person. :-)

I'm sure Glennis would LOVE that, you sleazebucket. Why does she have to
be Solomani, anyway? If she were a Zhodani, she'd have a natural tan,
and if she were Vilani, the lower-caste and easier to hire she was, the
less she'd wear! And (in a devastatingly DEFT linkup to the recent post
on interspecies romance) why limit ourselves to a HUMAN woman? We could
find ourselves a nice Aslan female with good measurements (38-32-24-36)
and put HER in a bikini! Or a Vargr female (34-33-32-24-36)! Or a Hiver
(27-27-27-27-27-27)! Or....

> Apologies to TML subscribers for the sexist sterotyping. :-)

Ditto. I really am politically correct, gender-neutral, equal opportunity,
affirmative action oriented, and free of racism, sexism, ageism, speciesism,
and most other isms. Wanna feel what I got in my pants pocket, little girl?
<snurf hack cough cackle>

- -- 

Mike Metlay
metlay@minerva.phyast.pitt.edu
Atomic City, P.O. Box 81175, Pittsburgh, PA 15217-0675

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4244
Date:     Wed, 27 May 92 14:12:55 EDT
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Use of Dean Designs

Please make note of the fact that any of my designs used in the "Ships
of the Black War" article in Challenge #60 and in "Assignment:Vigilante"
were used by my permission, with a disclaimer made to GDW regarding their
prior publication status.  They were not, however, supposed to leave my
name off. )-:

Rob Dean


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4245
Date: Wed, 27 May 1992 18:19:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: William Dow Rieder <wr0k+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Revenge of the Silly vehicles...

My entry for silliest Naval design:

CraftID:  Space Loco, Type SL, TL=7**, MCr 2.03
Hull:	18/45, Disp=20, Config=4SL, Armour=40B
	Unloaded=458, Loaded=688
Power: 4/8, Imp. Internal Combustion=30Mw, Duration=48/144 hours
Loco:	1/2, Manuver = 1G (Thrusters)
	NOE=40, Cruise=900, Top=1200, Agility=0
Commo: Radio=Planetary
Sensors: Radar=Distant
Off: None
Def: None
Control:  Computer=0*3, Electronic*56
	Environ=basic env, basic ls, extend ls
Accom: Crew=1(pilot), Bunks=2
	Seats=Roomy*2, Cramped*20
Other:    Cargo=10, Fuel=60, LOX=60
	  ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=Faint

Notes:	Yes, its an internal combustion powered spaceship!  The craft is
TL7 except for the thrusters(with integral Physics Nullifiers),
which are TL11.  It has enough fuel (and LOX) for 48 hours of 1G, or a
considerably longer time while not manuvering.  Very useful for TL7
worlds that want to produce spacecraft but don't have Fission/Fusion.
The only import needed is the thrusters.


My entry for silliest design with wheels:

CraftID:	Fusion Ground Car, Juggernaut, TL15, KCr 3,132
Hull:		Disp=8, Config=1AF, Armor=1G, Load=106, Unload=105.8
Power:	Fusion=252Mw, Dur=24 hrs
Loco:		Wheels=4, P/W=2,358, Road=2,502Kph, Offroad=500kph
Comm:	None
Sensors:	Headlights=2
Off/Def:	None
Control:	Computer=0, HoloHUD*1
Accom:	Seats=Cramped*4
Other:		Fuel=3Kl, Cargo=3.8Kl ObjSize=Small

Notes: I think the road speed speaks for itself.  Most of the volume in the car
is taken up by the Transmission required to get 250MW of power to the
wheels...

Another interesting point is that the car costs more than the spaceship. :-)

					W. Dow Rieder

 	When the only tool you have is a hammer, all your problems
start to look like nails...

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4246
Date: Thu, 28 May 92 10:54:27 EST
From: grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Subject: Flying saucers?  or magic pizzas?

hi,

Have you even wondered how a pizza is delivered at TL15?  Well, I've got the
answer for you!

Firstly, a series of standard self warming pizza boxes.  Each box is designed to
hold a single pizza of the specified size and to keep it at the correct
temperature for a duration of one hour.


CraftID: 12 inch pizza box, Type XT, TL15, Cr39.87
   Hull: 1/1 Disp=0.002426, Config=6SL, Armour=1G
	 Unloaded=0.000020114
  Power: Storage Battery 0.000002425MWhrs, Duration=1
    Def: DefDM=+2
Control: Environ=basic env
  Other: Cargo=0.002413 = 12 inch pizza
	 ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=Faint


CraftID: 18 inch pizza box, Type XT, TL15, Cr89.71
   Hull: 1/1 Disp=0.005457, Config=6SL, Armour=1G
	 Unloaded=0.000045255
  Power: Storage Battery 0.000005457MWhrs, Duration=1
    Def: DefDM=+2
Control: Environ=basic env
  Other: Cargo=0.005429 = 18 inch pizza
	 ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=Faint


CraftID: 24 inch pizza box, Type XT, TL15, Cr159.47
   Hull: 1/1 Disp=0.009701, Config=6SL, Armour=1G
	 Unloaded=0.000080448
  Power: Storage Battery 0.000009701MWhrs, Duration=1
    Def: DefDM=+2
Control: Environ=basic env
  Other: Cargo=0.009651 = 24 inch pizza
	 ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=Faint


All of these boxes includes a battery that is able to keep the pizza at a
decent temperature for about one hour.  All three of the boxes are 3cm high
and are roughly disc shaped.  There is a centimeter or so tolerance around the
edge of the pizza and the edge of the box.  Only the unloaded weight is
given since the loaded weight depends heavily upon the type of pizza installed
in the container.


An attempt was made to produce a self delivering version of the above boxes
by fitting a grav drive to them and increasing the battery's capability.  The
following series of boxes all have a 1G maneuver drive and can sustain full
power output for a duration of one hour (if the travel time is less than
the hour, the pizza will stay warmer for longer).

These boxes are not overly intelligent but they do provide a fire and forget
delivery system (customers are charged when they place the order).



CraftID: 12 inch pizza box, Type ZT, TL15, Cr60.20
   Hull: 1/1 Disp=0.003377, Config=6SL, Armour=1G
	 Unloaded=0.000029827
  Power: Storage Battery 0.000006630MWhrs, Duration=1
   Loco: 1/1 Maneuver=1, Agility=0,
	 NOE=40kph, Cruise=900kph, Top=1200kph
    Def: DefDM=+2
Control: Environ=basic env
  Other: Cargo=0.002413 = 12 inch pizza
	 ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=Faint


CraftID: 18 inch pizza box, Type ZT, TL15, Cr135.44
   Hull: 1/1 Disp=0.007600, Config=6SL, Armour=1G
	 Unloaded=0.000067108
  Power: Storage Battery 0.000014918MWhrs, Duration=1
   Loco: 1/1 Maneuver=1, Agility=0,
	 NOE=40kph, Cruise=900kph, Top=1200kph
    Def: DefDM=+2
Control: Environ=basic env
  Other: Cargo=0.005429 = 18 inch pizza
	 ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=Faint


CraftID: 24 inch pizza box, Type ZT, TL15, Cr240.77
   Hull: 1/1 Disp=0.013510, Config=6SL, Armour=1G
	 Unloaded=0.000119296
  Power: Storage Battery 0.000026519MWhrs, Duration=1
   Loco: 1/1 Maneuver=1, Agility=0,
	 NOE=40kph, Cruise=900kph, Top=1200kph
    Def: DefDM=+2
Control: Environ=basic env
  Other: Cargo=0.009651 = 24 inch pizza
	 ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=Faint


These self delivering boxes have been banned by most systems in the imperium
due to their dumb nature.  They are not able to take evasive action without
substantial extras being added to the basic unit.  They have been known to
cause quite impressive damage when things get in their way.



Hows that for an entry into the dumbest grav vehicle and dumbest immobile
design sections?





        						Pauli

Paul Dale                       | grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Department of Computer Science  | +61 7 365 2445
University of Queensland        |
Australia, 4072                 | The virus has infected my brain,
                                |     copy it to yours too.


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4247
From: anaylor@mihi.une.oz.au (Adam Naylor)
Subject: Pizzas
Date: Thu, 28 May 92 15:27:33 EST

So far guys I think the pizza boxes are winning .........

PS Enter them under naval catagory as well, as Lucans other secret
weapons .....Meson packing Pizza Boxes

BWA HA HA HA HA

Edmund

(Sigh you should have seen the looks I got when I burst out laughing
in the computer centre ........)



------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4248
From: anaylor@mihi.une.oz.au (Adam Naylor)
Subject: Computers
Date: Thu, 28 May 92 16:00:46 EST

Howdy again, this is a serious note about compputers . 

A friend asked me to ask yous about your views on computers in
the MT universe (How powerful are they, whats virtual reality like at
tech 15 etc) . 

Please all those with views respond (He wants as MUCH info as possible)
dont just leave it to someone else

<Geez Ive gone into serious mode all of a sudden, hmmmmmm .......)

But if you do have ideas lemmie know what they are ....

Oh and you can get technical cause hes a computer freak and will
understand everything you say .......

Post em to the newsgroup .......

Oh and James .....If there is any useful gossip on putes from the
past, do you have them handy ??????? (Please)

One more note about the Rogue Character Occupation I posted ......

(Ignore this if you dont use it)

Change the result of 7 on the assignment table to None (For Offworld
and Onworld), the character has no crim activity that year (roll 4+
to avoid prosecution for previous crimes, no skills or connections made)
and put the previous assigment (Infiltration) on the special assignment
table at roll 1 (Player gets to choose between assassination or
inflitration) . Also for prisoners rolling parole, the character makes
survival checks etc against the previous assignment rolled (but rolls
for parole at the end of it) . Those whose previous assignment was
mining cannot get parole (roll again but if rerolled they can) . If
the previous assignment was a special assignment, roll again on the
assignments table then make parole check at the end of that  If a 
special assignment is rolled, the character does that special
assignment and gets to roll for parole at the end of it . 

Phew ! Any problems lemmie know ........

Edmund'

o 

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4249
Date: Thu, 28 May 92 01:31 MST
From: PPUGLIESE@PimaCC.Pima.edu
Subject: Jump Shuttles & Tenders

The discussion about SDBs & Jump Shuttles reminded me of the 
planetoid ship in Supplement 9(?). The one that had the ship
desiogn from the Spinward Marches. It was mentioned that the
ship was carried by a tender ,place of the usual battlerider,
from Mora to Rorise. How was that done under MegaTrav rules?
Also, how would one get a Lanthanum grid onto a planetoid
hull w/o running up a horrendous bill anyway? I'm beginning
to think that there's at least one good thing from the cre-
ation of Trav3 & that's the exit of DGP! Well, make that 2
things. There's also all the money I'm going to save by not
having to buy anymore Trav stuff at all!

PHIL


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Archive-Message-Number: 4250
From: PHB100@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Date:    Thu, 28 May 92 09:35 EDT
Subject: My entry in the silly vehicle contest

Here's my entry in the competition, although I'll vote for James' trike.

Paul.Baughman
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The old grey mare             |  The aged neutral colored female equine
She ain't what she used to be |  She is obsolete
Ain't what she used to be     |  is obsolete
Ain't what she used to be     |  is obsolete

CraftID:        Neutral Colored Female Equine, TL 0+, Cr 50
Hull:           (5/13) Disp=0.6, Config=4USL, Armor=0, Load=0.75, Unload=0.5
Power:          (5/10) Bioactivated, 1.0 Hp, Dur=10 hrs
Loco:           (1/2)  Legs=4, P/W=1, Road=25Kph, Offroad=17kph
Off:            hoof*4, bite*1
Control:        SimpleMech*1, i.e. reins
Accom:          none*1
Other:          Fuel=0l, Cargo=10l, Objsize=Sm, EMLevel=None

Some or all cargo space can be used to carry refined fuel (oats), this will
extend duration by 2 days per liter.  If fuel is not carried, wilderness
refuelling can be used at the cost of slightly reduced efficiency and speed.
Wilderness refuelling requires 3-4 hours in every 24 hour period.  This can be
combined with required downtime of 10-12 hours in 24.  Downtime can be reduced
in emergency situations but too little downtime for too long can permanently
obsolete the unit.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -  - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

CraftID:        Warhorse, TL 0+, Cr 1500
Hull:           (9/22) Disp=1, Config=U4SL, Armor=1(Iron), Load=1.2, Unload=1
Power:          (9/18) Bioactivated, 1.0 Hp, Dur=5 hrs
Loco:           (1/2) Legs=4, P/W=1, Road=30Kph, Offroad=14kph
Off:            hoof*4, bite*1, One hardpoint can be used to mount a simple
                ram/pick; a lance
Control:        SimpleMech*1, i.e. reins
Accom:          none*1
Other:          Fuel=0l, Cargo=10l, Objsize=Sm, EMLevel=None

Some or all cargo space can be used to carry refined fuel (oats), if not,
wilderness refuelling can be used at the cost of greatly reduced efficiency
and speed.
Wilderness refuelling requires 3-4 hours in every 24 hour period.  This can be
combined with required downtime of 10-15 hours in 24.  Downtime can be reduced
in emergency situations but too little downtime for too long can permanently
obsolete the unit.


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4251
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Jump shuttles
Date: Thu, 28 May 92 18:12:02 MET DST

LTG3878@SUMMA.TAMU.EDU (whoever that may be) writes some good stuff about
the composition of jump drives and about installing lanthanum grids on
spaceboats.

However, if I were to design a jump shuttle, I'd install the extra
lanthanum grid in the shuttle itself in the form of a net that could
be wrapped around the object to be carried. There's a jump shuttle in
'Fighting Ships' that works precisely that way.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "A  subsector  official  pompously states that the
        subsector  armed  forces  have  four Kinunir class
        ships in service,  each with enough troop strength
        to put down any military operations that threathen
        the peace of the Imperium."

                        ---Adventure 1, The Kinunir

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4252
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Community ressources
Date: Thu, 28 May 92 18:19:59 MET DST

Richard Johnson writes:

> First, about community resources:
>
> Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> writes:
> :> Do any of you have any figures about how many [community resources] a
> :> community of 24.000 would have?...
>
> and James says:
> : I'm not rightly sure how many varied
> :shops Corvallis has, but as a college town I can state with some
> :authority that when I was in school there there were exactly thirteen
> :pizza outlets.
>
> And I'll bet Nogales Mexico (just across the border from Arizona, and about
> 45,000 last time I looked) has fewer pizza places, fewer educational outlets
> (at the university level anyway), and certainly no Mark Cook.  :=)
> I think we need to acknowledge that the quantity and quality of community
> resources depends a lot on the culture.

Of course I realize that culture and economics will cause variations.
I'm not trying to get THE definitive answer, I just don't want to have
something obviously wrong. If someone tells my that their population
24.000 community has 5 rat-catchers then I could have one or five or
ten in my Traveller colony, but I could at least avoid the mistake of
putting in 50 or 100.



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "This gives a possible range of 56 to 178 starships
         total  in the three Terran starport facilities,  a
         believable quantity for such a star system."

        "We have a maximum of 178 ships in port, and (as it
         is a busy star system)  we will say that there are
         70 docking berths at the Phoenix facility."

                        ---Journal of the Traveller's
                           Aid Society # 18

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4253
From: jpb@umbio.med.miami.edu (Joe Block)
Subject: Long running TCS campaigns
Date: Thu, 28 May 92 14:50:10 EDT

Hello, all.

I've been considering running a TCS campaign (I want to use it to generate
a campaign history) and have run into a couple of fairly thorny problems.

First, how do I deal with tech level advancement?  I'm sort of inclined to
seperate TL into the various sub-areas of power generation, medical, jump,
m-drive, etc etc, but how do I determine when an area is eligible to increase?
What about sub-area interaction?  Meson technology, for example, should never
be allowed to drop below particle beam tech level, but what should the other
interactions be?

Secondly, what about economics?  I feel that a planet should have X tons of
shipping pass through its starports each year to support a given GPP, but I'm
having a difficult time determining what the value of X should be.  I really
like this idea because it allows the empires to hurt each other badly by
commerce raiding, or even boost their own GPP by taking prize ships home. 
This has the added benefit of causing all sorts of possibilities for plot
complications when my PCs start adventuring later.

Thanks for the input,

Joe
- ---
Joe Block (jpb@umbio.med.miami.edu)
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
 deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
                                        Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4254
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Assignment: Vigilante
Date: Fri, 29 May 92 0:22:54 MET DST

I got this mini-module yesterday, and it turns out to be reasonably good
value for the money. The outline on the back cover of the drearily familiar
Subsidized Liner nearly persuaded me to keep my money, but fortunately my
store allows their customers to look inside the merchandize before buying.
The liner turns out to be converted to a StarMerc cruiser; quite useful.

Unfortunately GDW persists in their wilful disregard of common sense when
it comes to the effects of the hard times. The subsector (Promise,
L/Diaspora, just spinward of one of the subsectors in 'Hard Times')
contains a world with a population of 5 billion that has been bombed
down from Starport A, TL F to Starport B, TL D. This still leaves them
capable of supporting more than 24 Trillion Credit Squadrons. Despite
this their fleet consists of six _Gazelles_, six 400 T SDBs, four armed
Far Traders, three Patrol Cruisers, one armed Yacht, a _Broadsword_ and a
Corsair (plus 40+ small craft). I haven't bothered to figure out how much
of the naval budget there's left after maintaining this impressive fleet[1],
but we are told that the conversion of the aforementioned Subsidized Liner
to a military vessel were suspended in 1123 due to lack of funds...

Apparently GDW sees no paradox in having a TL D starport that can build
spaceships, but not starships. IMO during the Hard Times any world with
a TL above 8 will either have a Starport E-C (if someone bombed the
hell out of the yards recently) or A. The only place where type B
starports makes sense is on worlds with TL 6-8.

Incidentally, someone still seems to be enforcing interdictions.

[1] We are told that this is 'a considerable force by post-Rebellion
    standards'.



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "A  subsector  official  pompously states that the
        subsector  armed  forces  have  four Kinunir class
        ships in service,  each with enough troop strength
        to put down any military operations that threathen
        the peace of the Imperium."

                        ---Adventure 1, The Kinunir

(Things don't change much, do they? ;-)

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4256
Date: Thu, 28 May 92 23:36:18 EDT
From: popeet!wildstar@uunet.UU.NET (Derek Wildstar)
Subject: Oh, No!  More Wildstar!

tempfil2

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